"What guarantees the objectivity of the world in which we live is that this
world is COMMON to us with other thinking beings. Through the COMMUNications
that we have with other men we receive from them ready-made harmonious
reasonings [the mythos]. ..And as these reasonings appear to fit the world of
our sensations [the primary empirical reality], we think we may infer that
these reasonable beings have seen the same thing as we; thus it is that we know
we haven't been dreaming. It is this HARMONY, this QUALITY if you will, that is
the sole basis for the only reality we can ever know."
Dan:
Not sure where this quote is from but it smacks of objectivity. They are saying
because we as thinking beings agree on a commonality that it must be real and
true. This goes against the grain of the MOQ... it leaves out the cultural
lenses through which "thinking beings" view reality. ...
dmb says:
No, that quote is Pirsig and I think those ready-made harmonious reasonings ARE
the cultural glasses. And it's not just a matter of agreement with other
thinkers but also that they "appear to fit the world of our sensations". I
mean, we don't want to say the world begins and ends with the subjective
experience of each individual. That is pretty much the definition of solipsism.
This Pirsig quote, like the others, all emphasize the collective nature of our
mythos, our analogues, our ghosts, our cultural glasses etc.. and they
emphasize the idea that all those inventions were produced in response to
Quality, were guided on the track of the primary empirical reality.
I think Matt did a pretty good job of saying why even the MOQ has to explain
common sense reality. As I'd put it, we can't just go around thinking
everything we think and believe and care about is just an illusion. I think
it's better to think of those ready-made reasonings as those static latches
that are successful enough to have persisted into our time. And yea, "time" is
one of the patterns we've inherited. I mean it's one thing to say that gravity
is an invention but apples fell before Newton invented it and we MOQers can
fully accept Pirsig point and still prefer to jump out of a plane with a
parachute rather than without a parachute. You know? A rose by any other name
would still smell as sweet and gravity by any other name will still crush your
bones.
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