Hi John, I can see your point. Off the top of my head, I would question how orderly this thing we call evolution is. What is termed evolution is consigned to hindsight. As such it represents a depiction of how we got to where we are. Or, it provides a logical explanation for what we currently see, or are aware of. Since we prefer to operate within a linear analysis of reality, we create a logical evaluation of this evolution in a way which resembles a staircase. We can say that the progression of time (another conundrum) has provided us with the ability (or curse perhaps) to evaluate our current condition through a cause-effect analysis, and simplify the mess with rules of engagement. We call this ability for logic a result of evolution simply because it happened at a later time than, say, the beginning (again another conundrum).
On the other hand, and this may be what you are pointing at, our logic could be a presentation of a more fundamental underlying logic. In that case logic created the sense of evolution. I suppose we get to a chicken and egg situation with this. This is, of course, circular logic here, which in fact is really what logic is. Taking an assumption, and then using the logical results of that assumption to go back and prove the assumption. Pulling oneself up by one's own bootstraps as it were. This may in fact point to the circular nature of reality. OK, now I am confusing myself (heh, heh)... If we consider evolution simply as change, then there is no logic to it since it is hard to linearize change except through time. If we simply say that something has changed for a reason because it occurred later in time, we are left with a meal of hay. Not very satisfying in my opinion. As far as I can see, the arrow of understanding in MoQ uses betterness in place of time. And, as far as I can tell, there is no logic behind betterness, it is betterness which creates logic. Backatcha, Mark On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:52 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Mark, > > If logic arises from evolution, then what does evolution arise from? > > Right off the top of my head I'd say that evolution arises from logic - a > certain "good orderly flow" - right? > > Mmmm. I love conundrum. SO tasty! > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 30, 2011, at 9:27 AM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> All I am saying is that our logic is a function of evolution. That >> is, logic arises from evolution. I do agree that logic has both DQ >> and SQ components, and that their interaction gives logic its meaning. >> Intellect is not the same as the Intellectual Level, just like >> society is not the same as the Social Level. The levels are processes >> and not end products, imo. >> Mark >> >> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi Mark, >>> >>> I disagree that evolution identifies logic. Logic makes its appearance at >>> the intellectual level. There is no logic in an emotional DQ only level, >>> only possibility. How can I argue that emotions are a DQ level in evolution >>> when I agree that emotions are indefinable DQ only? Intellect embraces >>> evolution DQ/SQ and logic is born. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> On 11/27/11 4:07 PM, "118" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Logic? >>>> Logic starts with an assumption and then builds a scaffolding up from that. >>>> If it is seen as worthy, then people try to live in it. If they change >>>> their >>>> mind about the assumption, then they find another place to live. Some are >>>> perfectly happy where they are, others philosophize. >>>> >>>> Evolution identifies logic, IMO. >>>> >>>> Sent laboriously from an iPhone, >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> On Nov 27, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Steve and All. >>>>> >>>>> As I read your statement below the question "What is logic?" presents >>>>> itself. In an evolutionary format logic is from a higher to a lower >>>>> reality >>>>> or vise versa. Higher or Lower than becomes a judgment call. Unless we >>>>> establish an the order for evolution "Says you!" is the final arbiter in >>>>> logic. And I am posting to an endless debate. >>>>> >>>>> I would like to answer "What is logic?" by the declaration "Logic >>>>> identifies >>>>> the order in existence!" Evolution! >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11/27/11 1:54 PM, "Steven Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The only bad news that Rorty >>>>>> had was that there is no way to hold all of your assumptions in question >>>>>> at >>>>>> once. That doesn't leave us with nothing. Though we can't step outside of >>>>>> history and culture, but we can still think critically about our own >>>>>> tradition. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
