Hi Marsha, No, I will not criticize you. I will question you in true Socratic form, for that is what I do.
There is a difference between highly valued and high value and since you claim the latter I will deal with that. You speak of Evolution as opposed to dynamic change which is what I believe MoQ relates to. As you know, evolution is based on the survival of the fittest through natural selection; that our primary will is the will to survive. I believe this will is only a small part of our make-up. But let's see where the modern concept of evolution takes us. The premise is that due to environmental change an organism must adapt. Those which can adapt are considered fitter. Such evolution takes a long time. However, due to the lack of environmental pressures which cause us humans to change physically, the emphasis is based on behavior. That is, our behaviour is controlled by evolutionary tendencies. The ego itself is a necessary byproduct of evolution. I am sure Buddha would not have thought much of evolutionary theory as it currently stands. Why do you? Our current capitalist system is justified by such evolution. The smart get rich and the lazy stay poor. Now, I know that you must be a strict capitalist since you value evolution, but even you must admit that this concept is far from a perfect model. Evolution is used to justify the need for dominance and power. As such Evolution justifies wars and the relegation of "subspecies" of humans to a lower cast. Please remember that Darwin's book was titled "ON THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES BY MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION, OR THE PRESERVATION OF FAVOURED RACES IN THE STRUGGLE FOR LIFE". This idea of favored races was used by many to elevate on race over another at disastrous consequences. The notion of something being favored can be elevated to theism, and races of the wrong religion are killed. But, you may say, "that is just evolution at work, nothing to be done about it". I am not sure what the theory of evolution brings that is of value. Its control over the way people think is more negative than positive. Our lives become just part of evolution, and we feel we must go along with it and do things according to its dictates. It becomes an overwhelming force that gives individual life little meaning. This whole notion of a struggle for life is certainly not the way I experience things. It puts existence in a very dark place as far as I am concerned. Dark and meaningless in terms of a deterministic outcome, which is simply b the numbers. I could provide scientific reasons why it is of low value. But I will simply point out that data on its own is meaningless. All data must be subject to a model to give it meaning. Depending on which model is chosen, the data can mean vastly different things. Currently biological data is only fit to models of evolution rather than an alternative (and I am not talking divine creation or intelligent design). Therefore it is said that all data supports evolution. Well yes, because that is the only way it is analyzed. Even when there are discrepancies, an addendum to the theory must be conceived so that the theory is not thrown out. This happens all the time. You could have a theory that our human purpose is to house bacteria and carry them around. All the data available could be analyzed with that model, and your theory would be correct. But, is that really our purpose? Is it really our purpose just to survive? So, carry on and believe in evolution, you are a product of your time. But don't believe it just because people tell you to. Find out for yourself by seeing how well it fits into your life and view of reality. Cheers, Mark On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 1:05 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Evolution is a high value intellectual static pattern. Do you really want to > criticize me for saying that too? > > > Marsha > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:49 PM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> And this coming from somebody who doesn't understand Evolution is high >> support indeed. I suppose ignorance is a fine pattern indeed. Your >> Faith is astounding, and perhaps just right for you. >> >> On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 2:16 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>> I am also content to accept evolution as one of the highest working >>> intellectual hypotheses. It's seems a might fine pattern. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> On Dec 3, 2011, at 2:31 PM, Joseph Maurer wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Marsha and Mark, >>>> >>>> I do not know how you envision evolution, language? Pirsig changes the >>>> status of "Quality" from a adjective, relative existence, in SOM to a noun, >>>> DQ indefinable existence, in MOQ. >>>> >>>> What is the logic supporting this change? It can only be some change in a >>>> reality of existence like evolution not simply definition since DQ/SQ >>>> describes a metaphysics of existence, not simply a correction to SOM's real >>>> and intentional existence in terms of quality. Are there adjectives, nouns >>>> etc. in the MOQ? How does logic change from SOM to MOQ? >>>> >>>> For myself I am content to accept levels in existence, evolution, as a >>>> reality of DQ/SQ metaphysics. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/2/11 11:39 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Mark, >>>> >>>> I know you've said that you are sick of the sutras, but the Heart >>>>> Sutra explains that 'Emptiness is form, form is emptiness'. I understand >>>>> the >>>>> relationship between DQ/sq to be the same. But this can be, should be, >>>>> experienced not just conceptualized. There seems to be middle degrees >>>>> between >>>>> being a Buddha and being comatose or a newborn baby. It's been said by >>>>> many >>>>> that it is right there in front of you, something you've always known. >>>>> And >>>>> you don't need mind-altering drugs. Maybe it helps to find encouragement >>>>> from >>>>> someone we think we can trust, from someone whose explanation seems real >>>>> enough to seem possible. >>>> >>>> But you think on it. And then stop thinking for >>>>> long enough to see. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
