David Buchanan,
why don't you focus on something, where you actually could get a grip?
Nobody can get a grip of Marsha. Joe is old and might "express concepts
all over the place" like he said, but I have had a warm feeling from
reading his messages. And we are -being- here, in this mailing list. Not
only exchanging thoughts, but also, living a portion of our lives here.
So if someone makes me feel good, I remember it and take it as a good thing.
Why don't you focus on my work? Are you just being a bully or are you
trying to "purify" the MOQ from potential adulterants? In the latter
case, my work is of much more concern to you.
-Tuukka
21.3.2012 23:38, david buchanan kirjoitti:
Marsha said to dmb:
Static quality is not other than Dynamic Quality, Dynamic Quality is not
other than static quality? You might say two sides of a coin called Quality.
And according to the dictionary 'quality' isn't defined as being either Dynamic
or static.
dmb says:
Huh? You're conflating two different complaints. 1.) Your views contradict
Pirsig's texts. 2.) Your sentences contradict the english language. By
conflating them, you end up thinking that it makes sense to point out that the
dictionary does not define words according to Pirsig's MOQ. It doesn't make any
sense because nobody thinks that Pirsig controls the english language. His main
game is excellence in thought and speech and most would agree that he uses the
english language to great effect. But the fact that you misconstrue his ideas
AND use the language so badly at the same time does not mean they are one and
the same.
And this is just more proof that you need to get a different hobby. You're bad
at it and you cheat too.
On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:39 PM, david buchanan<[email protected]> wrote:
Here is a fairly clean and simple example of Marsha's inability (or
unwillingness) to comprehend the MOQ's basic structure.
Andre said Marsha:So there are four arguments here that you (continually) use
and which are CONTRARY to Pirsig's MOQ:1) the intellectual level = SOM 2)
DQ=sq 3) sq is 'everchanging...' 4) The MOQ=Experience.
dmb says:
Marsha responded to Andre's four objections by simply dismissing them, by pretending that they
aren't real. I'm quite sure that all four of them fairly represent her positions but I'd like to
focus on #3. I think just about everybody has seen that claim many times. I've even objected to the
proposition as an abuse of the english language. (According to all the dictionaries
"static" and "ever-changing" have opposite meanings so that they could never
rightly be equated.)
What makes this even stranger, is that she will post textual evidence that's
clearly against her own position on this and claim to agree with this
counter-evidence. She will not or cannot see how this quote, for example, works
against her claims.
"That’s the whole thing: to obtain static and Dynamic Quality simultaneously. If you
don’t have the static patterns of scientific knowledge to build upon you’re back with the
cave man. But if you don’t have the freedom to change those patterns you’re blocked from
any further growth." (LILA, Chapter 17)
Where Marsha says static quality is not other than Dynamic Quality, Pirsig says
the whole thing is to obtain BOTH. Where Marsha says static quality is
ever-changing, Pirsig says we need a stable base of scientific knowledge to
build upon. This quote is evidence against claim #2 and #3. Sadly, Marsha is
apparently oblivious and completely unmoved by this kind of evidence. It never
has any effect.
Her ideas clash with the text like a big, noisy train wreck but she doesn't
hear a sound. It's very weird.
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