Marsha said to dmb:
Your definition of 'intellectual quality' was nowhere to be found, either above
or below. It's a question you've long been ignoring? It's also amusing to
accuse me of denigrating intellectual quality when you cannot provide a
definition for such quality. Please share your definition of the Intellectual
Level? Otherwise your complaint is meaningless.
dmb says:
So now you're going to pretend that conceptual clarity and logical coherence
are mysterious ideas. Now you're going to pretend that it all hinges on MY
definition of intellect? Are you going to pretend that the words of the Buddha,
the Dali Lama, Traleg Rompoche, and Robert Pirsig are meaningless. Are you
going to pretend that you don't understand what these guys are saying? These
guys are condemning poor intellectual quality as taboo, as not only incorrect
but also immoral. To be vague and incoherent is a certain kind of naughtiness,
a shameful thing. I honestly don't see how it can work to be an
anti-intellectual Buddhist or philosopher. It's like being depressed and angry
clown. It's absurd. It's so perfectly wrong that it's kinda funny.
Pirsig says in chapter 8:
"The tests of truth are logical consistency, agreement with experience, and
economy of explanation. The MOQ satisfies these."
At the end of chapter 29 he says:
"The MOQ also says that DQ - the value-force that chooses an elegant
mathematical solution to a laborious one, or a brilliant experiment of a
confusing, inconclusive one - is another matter altogether. ...Dynamic value is
an integral part of science. It is the cutting edge of scientific progress
itself."
the Buddha said:
"Just as the wise accept gold after testing it by heating, cutting and rubbing
it, so are my words to be accepted after examining them, but not out of respect
for me."
And, similarly, the Dali Lama said:
"A general stance of Buddhism is that it is inappropriate to hold a view that
is logically inconsistent. This is taboo. But even more taboo than holding a
view that is logically inconsistent is holding a view that goes against direct
experience."
Traleg Rinpoche:"In the Buddha's early discourses on the Four Noble Truths, the
Noble Eightfold Path begins with the cultivation of the correct view...Without
a conceptual framework, meditative experiences would be totally
incomprehensible. What we experience in meditation has to be properly
interpreted, and its significance-or lack thereof-has to be understood. This
interpretive act requires appropriate conceptual categories and the correct use
of those categories... .While we are often told that meditation is about
emptying the mind, that it is the discursive, agitated thoughts of our mind
that keeps us trapped in false appearances, meditative experiences are in fact
impossible without the use of conceptual formulations... ."
As the Kagyu master Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye sang:"The one who meditates
without the view Is like a blind man wandering the plains...".
...The Metaphysics of Quality provides a better set of coordinates with which
to interpret the world than does subject-object metaphysics because it is more
inclusive. It explains more of the world and it explains it better. The
Metaphysics of Quality can explain subject-object relationships beautifully
but, as Phaedrus had seen in anthropology, a subject-object metaphysics can't
explain values worth a damn. It has always been a mess of unconvincing
psychological gibberish when it tries to explain values."
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