Hi Dan, Finally, I'm responding below. No excuses. My apologies for the hold up.
> Dan: > Yes that seems right. It reminds me a bit of Napoleon Hill and his > book Think and Grow Rich. Perception is everything. At the same time, > however, I think we are deluding ourselves if we believe we can obtain > perfection no matter how much we practice. As long as we continue > responding to Dynamic Quality, one can always become better at > whatever we rightly practice. Indeed. I agree. > Dan: > > Yes the perfection of the art of swordsmanship... of any art for that > matter... is not needed... it is a vehicle, nothing more... a journey > without destination, pure experience. We need words to point the way > to that which is left unsaid. Indeed. While reading the AHP transcript recently, I noticed how Pirsig acknowledges the contradiction that after one understands the MOQ, they should forget it. >>>> Yes, and as I am arguing that is only accomplished, on a regular basis, >>>> via 'mastery' of a particular static quality. >>> >>> Dan: >>> Again, perhaps one way of accomplishing it is through right practice. >>> Mastery has little to do with it, however. It is the journey, not the >>> destination. >> >> I think the disagreement here is brought to light with the Gateless Gate >> analogy. From a static point of view, DQ is the destination, so it is the >> journey which is important. But from a Dynamic Quality perspective, the >> destination is the source of all things including the journey, so the >> destination is the most important thing as you're 'it'. >> >> However, while it's through Mastery that we can complete the sq journey and >> experience the source of all things does that mean static quality and the >> journey has disappeared and gone, once and for all? >> >> No of course it doesn't, but it also doesn't mean that DQ and the mastery of >> static quality to achieve that DQ does not exist either.. > > Dan: > > Dynamic Quality is always 'there' weaving the magic we call > experience, our journey. I should think the gate-less gate analogy has > to do with the belief that one can achieve enlightenment... that there > is a path to follow, a gate through which one passes. Since there is > no enlightenment, there is no gate, no destination... and once one > comes to this realization they understand it has been nothing but a > mirage of their own making which they have been seeking after. So to be clear, are you suggesting there is no such thing as enlightenment? Is enlightenment a mirage? Just a mistaken belief? I think enlightenment (or perfection) (or Dynamic Quality) does exist and is not merely a mistaken belief. But there is more to life than just Dynamic Quality. This is what the MOQ says and this is where it differs from Zen Buddhism. > Dan: > We know Quality when we see it, and when we don't. Not all writing is > quality writing. And what is the sense of mastering something of low > quality? What did the man say who rebuilt Chicago after that cow > kicked over the lantern? Make no small plans as they haven't the power > to stir the soul. Indeed. Life's so short. We're so lucky to be alive. >>> We all know Quality when we see it. However, when I read my own >>> writings I cannot seem to gauge rightfully whether or not it is >>> good... sometimes I think it might be the best stuff I've ever >>> written... other times I am quite sure it is complete and utter trash. >>> Hopefully it falls somewhere in between. >> >> Yeah. You sound like Pirsig here. I think he was of the same opinion that >> some days he'd happily get rid of a lot of what he'd written but he holds >> onto it for another day - just to be sure that it's not simply the mood that >> he was in.. > > Dan: > They tell me that's what a good editor can do for a writer... Yeah. I'm more of an individualist myself... >> Rarely bored with anything? I encourage you, if you don't already, to simply >> sit on a cushion in a quiet room. Or better yet, go to a meditation retreat. >> It - gets - so - boring. But, "In nothingness there is great working" : - >> ) > > Dan: > I've attended a number of retreats at a Vipassana center not far from > my home. I didn't find it boring however. But I've been daily engaged > in mindful meditations and zazen for many years so perhaps that makes > a difference... I have no way of knowing. I enjoy the quiet I find > there... the non-involvement in the world of the everyday. > > I must admit though, what I do find a tad boring is the inane tv shows > I see my family watching when I visit their homes... I have difficulty > sitting there watching it with them... but I hate to be rude... and > the video games my grandchildren seem addicted to playing... I don't > see any point to it. I've come to suspect it is a deficiency on my > part... what am I not getting here? Nothing. I'm much the same. You're just not 'on the treadmill' so to speak. > On the other hand, I spend a great deal of time writing. I am unsure > there is any point to that either, although I do sell a book or two > from time to time. I guess it is my nature to prefer being alone... > and writing allows that, as does sitting quietly. It's the one thing > I've got... Cool. I respect that. Well, not as much disagreement here (relative to the amount of time I put off responding) as I was expecting Dan. The only point of contention in this post was whether you think enlightenment exists or is just a mistaken belief.. Thanks for you patience Dan, -David. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
