Hi Dan, >> David H: >> So to be clear, are you suggesting there is no such thing as enlightenment? > > Dan: > I should think it depends on one's point of view.
So it's relative? > > David H: > Is enlightenment a mirage? Just a mistaken belief? > > Dan: > To believe in something is to have confidence in it without empirical > proof. I have to wonder though... how does one go about proving the > existence of enlightenment? Not by words. One can however describe how to experience it. A finger points to the moon.. > > David H: > I think enlightenment (or perfection) (or Dynamic Quality) does exist > and is not merely a mistaken belief. But there is more to life than > just Dynamic Quality. This is what the MOQ says and this is where it > differs from Zen Buddhism. > > Dan: > We know Dynamic Quality by what it is not... would you agree? Yes. Intellectually we do. But we also 'know' it by experience - before these words capture it and thus point out what it is not. >> David H: >> Well, not as much disagreement here (relative to the amount of time I put >> off responding) as I was expecting Dan. The only point of contention in >> this post was whether you think enlightenment exists or is just a mistaken >> belief.. > > Dan: > If a person believes in enlightenment I would say good for them. > Personally, I do not share that belief. But I would not go so far as > to say it is a mistaken belief. It is like those people who profess to > having a belief in God... I am not about to discount such beliefs > though I do not share it. I too think that enlightenment isn't something you believe in, but I do think that it is something you experience. > On the other hand, I know what I know but I have no way of sharing > that knowledge other than through my interpretation of analogies like > the gate-less gate. That analogy suggests (to me) that for those who > know there is no enlightenment... so what is it that the seekers seek > if not themselves? I think the gateless gate analogy is about the moment of enlightenment itself. It's that moment when you realize that the thing which you've been striving for was there all along. -David Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
