Hi David and All, I guess DQ is also inconceivable along with indefinable?
Joe On 7/9/12 12:41 PM, "david buchanan" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Joe said to DMB: > I guess in my last post I didn't include all the caps, but I am curious. Am I > being guided to a particular interpretation? Or are you just having fun with > emphasis? > > dmb says: > I'm explaining the problem with Marsha's misconception of key terms, > especially the scope and meaning of terms like "undifferentiated". Yesterday > in this thread, it went like this.... > > > > Marsha said:I am saying if Dynamic Quality is undifferentiated, it cannot be > about perceptions (smells, sounds, tastes, visions, and feelings) which are > differentiated, which require a spacial-temporal framework; and which are > dependent on human sense apparatus? Neither you nor the paper that you were > unable to explain, addressed this issues. > > dmb says:Yea, I know what you're saying and I've already explained that you > have misunderstood the scope and meaning of the term "undifferentiated". ... > > And that's about where Dan helpfully joined in.... > > Dan said to Marsha: > As I read it, your question is explained right here in the snippet Dave > provided: "For our ability to describe or report a wide-range of tastes and > smells lags far behind our capacity to actually have an experience of a nearly > infinite spectrum of tastes and smells. In other words, the deliverances of > our senses continually run ahead of both our descriptive vocabularies as well > as our conceptual abilities." > > > dmb replied: > Pirsig says very much the same thing... THE EMPHASIS IS MINE... >>> >>> "... at the cutting edge of time, before an object can be distinguished, >>> there >>> must be a kind of non-intellectual awareness, which he called awareness of >>> Quality. You can't be aware that you've seen a tree until after you've SEEN >>> the tree, and between the instant of VISION and instant of awareness there >>> must be a time lag. We sometimes think of that time lag as unimportant, But >>> there's no justification for thinking that the time lag is unimportant... >>> none >>> whatsoever." --Pirsig in ZAMM >>> >>> >>> "...The tree that you are aware of intellectually, because of that small >>> time >>> lag, is always in the past and therefore is always unreal. Any >>> INTELLECTUALLY >>> CONCEIVED object is always in the past and therefore unreal. REALITY is >>> always >>> the MOMENT OF VISION BEFORE the intellectualization takes place. There is no >>> other reality. This PRE-INTELLECTUAL REALITY is what Phædrus felt he had >>> properly identified as Quality. Since all intellectually identifiable things >>> must emerge from this pre-intellectual reality, Quality is the parent, the >>> source of all subjects and objects." --Pirsig in ZAMM >>> >>> >>> "The central reality of mysticism, the reality that Phaedrus had called >>> 'Quality' in his first book, is not a metaphysical chess piece. Quality >>> doesn't have to be defined. You understand it without definition, ahead of >>> definition. Quality is a direct experience independent of and prior to >>> INTELLECTUAL ABSTRACTION. Quality is indivisible, undefinable and >>> unknowable IN THE SENSE that there is a KNOWER AND A KNOWN, but a >>> metaphysics >>> can be none of these things. A metaphysics must be divisible, definable, and >>> knowable, or there isn't any metaphysics." --Pirsig in LILA > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
