Ron my friend, On 8/15/12, X Acto <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mark had said: > If Mark is mad, then so are you. You are repeating what I wrote. Welcome > aboard! Good luck with some of the others though. Insanity is overrated, > just read the books by Pirsig to grasp that. You on the other hand just > seem angry. Good luck with that. Maybe you need a new cathode tube. > > Ron replies: > Mark, I find it difficult to discern that we are talking about the same > thing. Your post attacks Pirsigs > criticism of scientific objectivism as a criticism of all science then tries > to paint that criticism as a straw > man and Pirsig as a foolish layman who really does not understand sceince. > This makes you come off like a pompus egotistical ass that has really not > took the time to > carefully read the material. This indeed raises the hackles of those of us > who have done the reading.
Mark: That you do not comprehend what I write does not mean we differ in viewpoint. I will be the judge as to whether we agree or not, since your posts are rather simplistic and two dimensional. I have yet to see something creative coming from your pen. The "philosophical" post which you provided the forum (above) is complete nonsense, and you know it. If you want to be one of the righteous who are governed by pride, then this is not the forum for you. Try a political forum; there you can call people names and be rewarded for it. In response to what you claim is "criticism" Pirsig I can state the following. Nobody is more indebted to Pirsig than I. You are a tag-along and while your posts are often interesting, they are pure Western drivel. I would hazard to say that I have read both ZAMM and Lila more times than you have. What is taken from such books are not the words, but rather what those words stimulate. It appears to me that they have not stimulated much in you since you keep referring to the books as gospel. What is in these books is only a small part of what is intended by Pirsig. There are way too many literalists in this forum. Let me reiterate what I said concerning science, in another way. There is a big difference between observing formal science and creating it in real time. Scientific creations are as much art as a da Vinci (who also dabbled in science) painting. We can sit around and look at the Mona Lisa, but that is entirely different from painting it, entirely. This is what I mean by layman. I, of course, am a layman in many things. For example I am not a musician. For me, music comes in as an object of affection and enables my creativity. I leave the song writing to others. Science involves the creation of structure, just like a constellation is a structure. It is provisional and depends on the people involved in it. Currently there is a trend to impose Darwinism on everything. This too shall pass since that is how science works. Who knows what we will come up with in 50 -100 years! Pirsig uses science since it is the currency of the day. Within each age, each teacher uses the lingo of the day. Pirsig rightly states that Scientism is way too powerful. Such a religion is based on "promissory materialism" (read what Popper or Eccles have to say on this to learn more). It is completely two dimensional. Realizing this opened the door for neo-Cartesian duality which separated the mind from the brain (read Eccles, who was a neuroscientist). This is of course also standard Zen teaching, there is a mind outside the brain. One can certainly criticize the displays made by science and say that they are insufficient, however the scientific method can also be used to explore the mystical (read Occult Science by Rudolf Steiner, free from Kindle). The scientific method is pattern recognition, pure and simple. As humans we have an enormous capacity for such pattern recognition (or creation if you will). If the fact that I live and breathe science makes me into an ass so far as you are concerned, then how about you provide me with your profession and I will say the same about you. Besides, from your posts your pomposity stands clear. Just who do you think you are? Are you God's gift to Pirsig? You are small minded and stuck. I pay you a compliment and say that I agree with you, and all you respond with is rubbish. Well, good luck with that. If you actually want to discuss philosophy, then I am all ears. Maybe you have something to say about the interrelationship between DQ and SQ. We can only hope. Try to relax and not be so reactive. Maybe you are a fireman in real life, but there is no fire here. There is nothing you need to stamp out. There is not even any smoke except maybe between your ears. Cheers, Mark > > > . > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
