[email protected]> <[email protected]> <CAP2xam6OLqeVDm_f=TOY_zTUK8vDaXTeF4b8SRh1QWR_X [email protected]> To: [email protected] X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084)
Thanks Mark. 4 levels and 3 dimensions of the thermodynamics is enough for me so far. I have some funny ideas for a sequel but nothing definite yet. I think you will be surprised anyway. One track takes a lot of math and physics to read first. Don't forget to post a review on iTunes bookstore. May betterness be with you Jan Anders 5 okt 2012 kl. 07.35 skrev 118: > Hi JA, > Congratulations! > Hope you have a sequel in the works. Don't wait 20 years and write one > just out of necessity! Remember, beware of fame. > > I have been using MoQ for almost 40 years now and am not even aware of it. > That is, until I post on this forum to explain how it works. I hope your > wrench is becoming more handy for you. All it takes is practice, my > friend. You will get the hang of it and forget you are using it too. > Leave the instructions behind and let the motorcycle become you. > > Regards, > Mark > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Jan Anders Andersson > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> [email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) >> >> Hi Mark >> >> Today's score: (all these funny names sounds like some weird poetry, not >> to mention the list of the names of the ‘likers’) >> >> Örebro, Örebro Län >> London, England' >> San Benigno Canavese, Piemonte >> Rohtak, Haryana >> Vadodara, Gujarat >> New Delhi, Delhi >> Norwich, England >> Mysore, Karnataka >> Mandatoriccio, Calabria >> Kohima, Nagaland >> Zaragoza, Aragon >> Conversano, Puglia >> Waterloo, Ontario >> Toronto, Ontario >> Metz, Lorraine >> Moncton, New Brunswick >> Saskatoon, Saskatchewan >> Gropello Cairoli, Lombardia >> Amravati, Maharashtra >> Bilaspur, Chhattisgarh >> >> Seems like East and US is losing ground... >> >> Keep up the good reading, don't forget to take care of the organic level >> in between. >> The world out there is waiting for you using your MOQ wrench. >> >> Jan Anders >> >> >> 3 okt 2012 kl. 05.44 skrev 118: >> >>> Hi Jan Anders, >>> >>> Thank you for the input on your book. I must admit I did read your book >>> rather quickly as I do sometimes to get the overall feel of a book such >> as >>> this. I appreciate the time you took to provide more explanation. I am >>> providing some MoQ related comments below, so that you can get an idea >>> where I am coming from so far as Quality is concerned. >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Jan Anders Andersson < >> [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> I think you should be interested of what "Money and the Art of Losing >>>> Control" has to do with MOQ as it seems that you want to know more about >>>> Quality. MALC is generally a story about how to USE (or not use:-) the >>>> knowledge of MOQ and Quality in our daily ordinary life. I don't >> consider >>>> MOQ to be just some mind game. It's an intellectual tool to be used. >>>> >>> >>> Mark: >>> I believe this is a place where we may differ in terms of Quality. We >> both >>> probably agree that MoQ is a metaphysical presentation of what Pirsig >> terms >>> Quality. He uses this term with good reason since we all know what >> Quality >>> is without having to define it. However, it is my impression that >> Quality >>> does not fit within the traditional S/O interpretation of reality. For >> me, >>> Quality is a manner of interpreting reality in a manner which does away >>> with subjects and objects. Therefore, when I think of "using" Quality, I >>> think in terms of interpreting the world as Quality (seeing the world as >>> objectless). The metaphysics presented in MoQ is one example of how this >>> can be done, but the interpretation of existence through a Quality >> paradigm >>> can be explained in many ways. While the levels are interesting, they >> are >>> not necessary for beginning a journey by Quality. This should be >> obvious, >>> since many people knew what Quality was long before Lila was written. >>> >>>> >>>> JA: One of the most basic issues of the MOQ is change. Without change >>>> there would be no cosmological evolution. Without the possibility of a >>>> change there would be no meaning in motorcycle maintenance, getting >> drunk >>>> and picking up bar ladies. >>>> >>> >>> Mark: >>> As presented, MoQ could encompass change. It would not be the first >>> metaphysics to do so, since an interpretation through science also brings >>> change to the forefront. So I do not think that Change is a big part of >> an >>> interpretation through Quality. I think the main force of such >>> interpretation comes from the ability to completely dismiss subjects and >>> objects. >>> >>>> >>>> JA: Change deserves time-space. Time is crucial for the experience of >>>> Quality because there is a moment before the experience, under and >> after. >>>> Every pattern is repeated, from time to time, it is frequently >> recurring. >>>> Truth is something that we can presume will occur again with great >>>> significance. Every time it meets our expectations we will call it true. >>>> From the smallest Higgs-Boson particle to galaxies in the universe we >> can >>>> see that it is a Way, Pattern or Method, to gain Energy, with its Form >> and >>>> with its Value. If something doesn't have a certain amount of Energy, a >>>> characteristic Form and an influencing Value, it is not proved to exist >> as >>>> a real static pattern. >>> >>> >>> Mark: >>> I understand why you bring in traditional scientific paradigms, for that >> is >>> what we are brought up with. However, such examples can lead directly >> away >>> from an appreciation of Quality. For what science does is create objects >>> as its main mode of interpretation of reality. These objects are very >>> misleading and can cloud any understanding of awareness through Quality. >>> The more objects and examples one brings in from this scientific >>> discipline, the more one is drawn away from Pirsig's Quality, in my >> opinion. >>> >>> However, I do see what you are trying to do, and i like your examples. >> We >>> make things up like Energy and Patterns, for that is our way >>> of interpreting existence in traditional Western ways. That is, we create >>> these things. That we see there is a Way, it is only because we have >>> created such a Way. Of course this is important, since it is of great >>> value to make the cosmos personal. The world we create "out there" is >>> actually happening in our heads and is determined by the make up of our >>> bodies. It is the interaction of that "out there" and our bodies that >>> becomes the reality we are sensing. As such, we cannot rightly separate >>> ourselves from that which we see. They are both the same thing. >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> JA: The conditions that let matter, patterns arise as Static Values >>>> depending on Dynamic Quality are important to know. One of the most >>>> important experiences for any pattern is the time experience. Before, >> now >>>> and later. >>>> >>> >>> Mark: >>> So far as I can tell, patterns do not arrise, we create them. We are >>> responsible for the patterns by which we interpret the world. Without >>> anybody to create these patterns they do not exist. Patterning is one of >>> the highest achievements of Man. The other one is, of course, humor. >>> Matter does not arise, we bring it to life and call it matter. We are >> the >>> creators of such matter since they become patterns in our heads. This is >>> what is meant by the Ghost of Reason. Matter as we traditionally use the >>> word is a ghost, it is a fabrication. >>> >>>> >>>> JA: Every event, every episode in the book MALC is an example of the >>>> influence of Quality and the levels affecting our reality patterns. The >>>> trip starts and ends at the same place, like a circular movement. It has >>>> its certain top and bottom points. Every emotional sensation is >>>> representing a value transmitted to the owner of the human pattern, how >> to >>>> read the 42 guiding "lights" from the biological level and make the best >>>> choice from that. Biological patterns build their patterns upon their >>>> experience from inorganic characteristic patterns. When Elsa is a sleep, >>>> when John falls asleep, they are leaving the social level and all that >> is >>>> left is their biological and inorganic patterns. Social patterns depend >> on >>>> biological values, some time it is true, sometime the intellectual >> pattern >>>> in the mind mirror show a false picture of the social level. >>>> >>> >>> Mark: >>> OK, cool, I will keep that in mind when I get there (second time around). >>> >>> >>>> JA: When the spear passes Johns face he's facing the danger of a >>>> One-dimensional pattern thrown by a disguised enemy with an untrue >> Quality >>>> experience. The dogs represents static power with not much intellectual >>>> understanding. Our modern era dominated by Monetaristic thinking is very >>>> dangerus because it is sort of a one-dimensional pattern. The "economic >>>> man" is so primitive and that is why I suspect Ayn Rand to be a >> undercover >>>> agent sent by Josef Stalin to infiltrate western thinking into some >> kind of >>>> photonegative mindmap of the economic machinery planned by the russian >>>> communists. MALC is my contribution to broaden the perspective and show >> the >>>> other important dimensions of economics. >>>> >>> >>> Mark: When you speak of "primitive man" it reminds me of a movie I just >>> saw called The Master. It is meant to be about "Scientology", where we >> are >>> trapped in our primitive brains due to evil forces, of something. A >> pretty >>> good movie. I really have no problem with Scientology although I am not >>> a practitioner, it is Scientism that I have a problem with. We have >> become >>> so bewitched by the world of objects and their "measurement" that we do >> not >>> see that they are simply shadows being cast within our brains, and we >>> forget what it is that is casting these shadows. Of course Plato speaks >> of >>> this as well. >>> >>> The point of MoQ is to get out of the cave of shadows. Forget Science >> and >>> all that it professes. All that stuff is entertaining, but is also >>> addictive. People actually think that light is a wave or a particle. Of >>> course it is neither of these things, such models are >>> simply descriptions of light. Light has nothing to do with waves or >>> particles, those are just patterns we create. If I paint a landscape, I >> do >>> not then confuse my painting for the actual landscape. In the same way, >> we >>> should not confuse light with our description of it. Scientism is a dead >>> end. It leads nowhere in terms of metaphysics. >>> >>>> >>>> JA: When John is chased by the ice floes, he's experiences the danger >>>> of Two-dimensional patterns. When the passing train makes the ground to >>>> vibrate it is a power like exergy in change that creates new patterns. >>>> When the rabbit is crushed by the tyre it changes its Three-dimensional >>>> pattern into a two-dimensional and it dies. Flat dog, no good. >>>> When John walks through the dressing room his biological pattern is >>>> causing trouble for the female social environment. His biological nose >> is >>>> misleading him and so on. He is a lousy card player, why doesn't he care >>>> more for it? >>>> >>> >>> Yes, I like the two dimensional patterns for that is what objects are. >> If >>> we live in a world of self created objects, we become two dimensional. >> MoQ >>> provides one way in which to escape this form of existence. We are >> allowed >>> to stand up and actually look around rather than scurry around as >> shadows. >>> >>>> >>>> JA: Thanks for the inspiration. Maybe you should get more from a reread >>>> with this in mind. >>>> >>> >>> Thanks, I will. >>> >>> Hope what I present makes sense. I find much more value in a world >> without >>> objects. Like I say, Quality is a different way of looking at reality. >>> Most would call it insane. But that is simply because it has not caught >>> on, yet... >>> >>> I have to say, that I interpret the levels in a very different way than >> you >>> do, as well. Whatever works, heh? >>> >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>> >>> Mark >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
