Well, dmb This conepst of yours is not only according to MoQ, but it is according to many sociologists. I am not sure what MoQ can add to those. Sometimes MoQ sounds more like a naive lesson in sociology, biology, chemistry, or just common sense the way in which you present it. What is new about fame and fortune being a social value? Well Duhh! Is this really what MoQ is about as far as you are concerned? Sounds more like the National Inquirer. You are making a mockery out of MoQ with this intrusion into sociology and politics. Why don't you stick to Quality rather than go into the social or physical sciences or politics. There are much better places to read about these things than in what Pirsig wrote. You are making a fool out of Pirsig with all your pronouncements of greatness in areas he would not even claim any deep knowledge. Pirsig is speaking about Quality, remember? Not about all these other things that you seem infatuated with. Why don't you stick to Quality since that is what MoQ is about?
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:50 AM, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: dmb said: According to the MOQ, fame and fortune are social level values. According to the MOQ, our recent history is a clash of values, namely social level values as opposed to intellectual values. Marsha replied: Within the nine quoted paragraphs you presented, what RMP actually wrote was that money, or fortune, was one of the "... dynamic parameters that give society its shape and meaning." ...The remaining quotes made no reference to money or economics at all. ... dmb says: You don't understand that the clash between communism and fascism is chiefly about economics? Fame and fortune are the twin forces of the social level, but these traditional gods were challenged and confronted by "Communism and socialism, programs for intellectual control over society," Pirsig says. "The new culture that has emerged is the first in history to believe that patterns of society must be subordinate to patterns of intellect. The one dominating question of this century has been, “Are the social patterns of our world going to run our intellectual life, or is our intellectual life going to run the social patterns?” Mark: Why are you referencing Pirsig here? He is not expert on communism or socialism. Don't you have better references for these kinds of subjects? Next thing I'll hear from you is that Pirsig is an expert in quantum physics. Pirsig is not saying anything new here. How about we stick to Quality, and leave the social sciences and politics for those who are educated in this subject. You make Pirsig seem like some kind of Pretender, which he is not. He does not claim to be an expert in any of these things, and neither are you. Grow up. What you are proclaiming with this intellectual control is exactly what Napoleon tried in the 1800s and failed. Remember the Age of Rationality? Why would you be going back a few hundred years? Been there, tried that, failed. Man cannot be controlled by the intellectual, nor should he be. Trust in Quality, not our meager intellect. There are more ways to get things wrong than right. dmb continues: When was politics ever NOT about money and economics? Why do I have to spell out the most basic inferences and supply the most basic facts before you can even see the point? I think it's fair to presume that the readers in a philosophy discussion group are not profoundly ignorant about politics or the basic facts of history and presume that they can think about what they read. That's why you don't belong here. You're just not equipped or even willing, apparently. Mark: dmb, since when did you become an expert on politics? Do you have a major in political sciences, or are you just pretending to know more than you do? Why would anybody listen to your "facts"? Your arrogance is getting preposterous. Are you a historian? How can you presume to lecture on any of these things? You are really making a joke out of yourself with all your presumptions. Do you really claim to be an expert in these things? Earth to dmb, time to come out of space… Get in touch with the real world, dmb, you know only a little. Why don't you just stick to what James' wrote rather than pretend to know more than that? You are making a mockery out of the forum with your false pretenses. Your writing shows you just to be a naive, uniformed, child when it comes to sociology, politics, or even Quality. Why don't you write about something that you know about? Just a suggestion before you make a complete fool out of yourself. Regards, Mark Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
