Mark, There is a danger in taking any metaphor or analogy too seriously, for at some point they're all to be realized as dreams, illusions, bubbles, shadows, dew drops or like a lightning flash, but there is something to be said for the Wise Ones pointing. I am grateful for their maps.
Marsha On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:42 AM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Marsha, > Yes, I too think he was a dynamic person. He used to go into trances that > used to last for hours. like puthagorus and Parmenides he had those > qualities that we call mystical, although it seems to me that such a term is > typically misunderstood. > > It seems to me that he was pointing to the ghostly nature of knowledge. He > could show through questioning how what a person was certain of, was > uncertain. He some of the direct apprehension of the divine, which is the > same as gnosis. This is Buddhism as well, and by mixing that with Taoism we > got ch'an, which later became Zen. > > Zen has nothing to do with practice as some in this forum seem to think. It > has to do with awareness. I think the awareness of Socrates was like Zen. I > also think that such awareness is the same thing that Pirsig experienced and > is trying to explain with all his examples in Lila. It is an awareness > without objects. From this awareness, life is different. One cannot learn > about it, one must experience it, for such awareness is no thing. > > MoQ can bring one there if one ignores the specifics, or Western analysis. I > think it is not important what Pirsig writes, but why he writes it. This why > would be a discussion in this forum. The rest is like reading a map without > ever planning to visit the country. > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > Mark > > On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:41 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> Socrates, who may have been a mystic, once remarked, "What I do not know I >> do not think I know." To my understanding, Socrates was saying that he >> appeared wise because he was simply more aware of his ignorance rather than >> his wisdom. His emphasis was on the negative - not this, not that - or what >> was missing. I can imagine he was a quite a dynamic fellow. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:54 PM, 118 wrote: >> >>> Hi Marsha, >>> That is good. Have you found it? Let me know when you do, I am interested >>> how you bring it back and describe it to the rest of us. Perhaps it is >>> something like Gnosis. >>> >>> I personally can not get there through your logic, but we each have our own >>> way. I have found what I found. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:19 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Mark, >>>> >>>> I see it differently. I am in agreement with those who think the best >>>> approach to discovering the Ultimate Truth (DQ) is by discovering what is >>>> false: not this, not that. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 6, 2012, at 1:08 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Greetings, >>>>> >>>>> "It is the beginning, the genesis, that stands ready to be replaced. The >>>>> singular and all-important moment of creation at the beginning of the Big >>>>> Bang --- the beginning of time and existence --- is poised to be swept >>>>> aside. In other words, it's the bang in the Big Bang that we, in our >>>>> endless quest to understand the world, are ready to abandon. That single >>>>> moment of creation with no before has been done in by the very precision >>>>> of the science that gave the idea a measure of reality." >>>>> (Frank, Adam, 'About Time: Cosmology and Culture at the Twilight of the >>>>> Big Bang', p. xiv) >>>>> >>>>> Marsha: >>>>> I am in agreement with those who think the best approach to discovering >>>>> the Ultimate Truth (DQ) is by discovering what is false: not this, not >>>>> that. >>>>> >>>>> And another one bites the dust. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
