Hi Marsha, Yes I agree. Analogies are only as important as the meaning they bring. They are attempts to explain how one is thinking. They are not definitions. I can think of many analogies for DQ. Each one is contextual and part of rhetoric. If one considers them as true and binding, they have missed the point.
I too am grateful. Mark On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:44 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mark, > > There is a danger in taking any metaphor or analogy too seriously, for at > some point they're all to be realized as dreams, illusions, bubbles, shadows, > dew drops or like a lightning flash, but there is something to be said for > the Wise Ones pointing. I am grateful for their maps. > > > Marsha > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2012, at 12:42 AM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Marsha, >> Yes, I too think he was a dynamic person. He used to go into trances that >> used to last for hours. like puthagorus and Parmenides he had those >> qualities that we call mystical, although it seems to me that such a term is >> typically misunderstood. >> >> It seems to me that he was pointing to the ghostly nature of knowledge. He >> could show through questioning how what a person was certain of, was >> uncertain. He some of the direct apprehension of the divine, which is the >> same as gnosis. This is Buddhism as well, and by mixing that with Taoism we >> got ch'an, which later became Zen. >> >> Zen has nothing to do with practice as some in this forum seem to think. It >> has to do with awareness. I think the awareness of Socrates was like Zen. >> I also think that such awareness is the same thing that Pirsig experienced >> and is trying to explain with all his examples in Lila. It is an awareness >> without objects. From this awareness, life is different. One cannot learn >> about it, one must experience it, for such awareness is no thing. >> >> MoQ can bring one there if one ignores the specifics, or Western analysis. >> I think it is not important what Pirsig writes, but why he writes it. This >> why would be a discussion in this forum. The rest is like reading a map >> without ever planning to visit the country. >> >> Thanks for your thoughts. >> >> Mark >> >> On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:41 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Hi Mark, >>> >>> Socrates, who may have been a mystic, once remarked, "What I do not know I >>> do not think I know." To my understanding, Socrates was saying that he >>> appeared wise because he was simply more aware of his ignorance rather than >>> his wisdom. His emphasis was on the negative - not this, not that - or >>> what was missing. I can imagine he was a quite a dynamic fellow. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:54 PM, 118 wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Marsha, >>>> That is good. Have you found it? Let me know when you do, I am >>>> interested how you bring it back and describe it to the rest of us. >>>> Perhaps it is something like Gnosis. >>>> >>>> I personally can not get there through your logic, but we each have our >>>> own way. I have found what I found. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:19 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mark, >>>>> >>>>> I see it differently. I am in agreement with those who think the best >>>>> approach to discovering the Ultimate Truth (DQ) is by discovering what is >>>>> false: not this, not that. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 6, 2012, at 1:08 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Greetings, >>>>>> >>>>>> "It is the beginning, the genesis, that stands ready to be replaced. >>>>>> The singular and all-important moment of creation at the beginning of >>>>>> the Big Bang --- the beginning of time and existence --- is poised to be >>>>>> swept aside. In other words, it's the bang in the Big Bang that we, in >>>>>> our endless quest to understand the world, are ready to abandon. That >>>>>> single moment of creation with no before has been done in by the very >>>>>> precision of the science that gave the idea a measure of reality." >>>>>> (Frank, Adam, 'About Time: Cosmology and Culture at the Twilight of the >>>>>> Big Bang', p. xiv) >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha: >>>>>> I am in agreement with those who think the best approach to discovering >>>>>> the Ultimate Truth (DQ) is by discovering what is false: not this, not >>>>>> that. >>>>>> >>>>>> And another one bites the dust. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
