djh said to dmb:
... I agree that a philosophy forum is intellectual and the first thing anyone
should recognise when they join a philosophy forum is recognise that what
they're doing is ultimately degenerate by destroying the ultimately undefinable
reality with fixed metaphysical meanings.
dmb says:
Oh, okay. That probably explains why your assertions are not making any sense.
I think this is quite wrong and it is exactly where Marsha goes wrong. This is
the bogus move that leads to the anti-intellectualism. As you've just
construed, any philosophical discussion is degenerate and it always wrong to
have any kind of intellectual conversation. This is the mistake I'm trying to
correct.
This mistake confuses DQ with sq in a very weird way. We all know that DQ
cannot be defined but somehow Marsha (and you too, apparently) has construed
this to mean that definitions cannot be defined. It's not just degenerate to
try to define the undefinable reality, in this distorted view, it's also
immoral to define philosophical terms. This is why I keep harping on the
distinction between concepts and reality. This is the difference between
Pirsig's metaphysics and the undefinable Quality that it talks about. DQ is not
definable but I'm not talking about DQ. I'm talking about Pirsig's metaphysics.
None of these complaint were EVER about defining the undefinable.
"The Metaphysics of Quality itself is static and should be separated from the
Dynamic Quality it talks about. Like the rest of the printed philosophic
tradition it doesn't change from day to day, although the world it talks about
does."
See? DQ is ever-changing, the undefinable reality is ever-changing. The MOQ is
not DQ. The MOQ is not reality. The MOQ and the terms it employes are not
supposed to be undefinable. Confusing the two is the mistake I hate so
passionately. I find it quite disturbing that most MOQers seem oblivious to the
outrageous wrongness of this blunder.
"Quality is indivisible, undefinable and unknowable in the sense that there is
a knower and a known, but a metaphysics can be none of these things. A
metaphysics must be divisible, definable and knowable, or there isn't any
metaphysics."
Again, Pirsig project is to expand and improve the intellect. This
anti-intellectualism is a profoundly bad and bogus misreading of the MOQ, one
that deserves contempt.
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