--- Static patterns of value are repetitive processes (multiple events),
conditionally co-dependent,
impermanent,
and ever-changing,
that pragmatically tend to persist and change within a stable, predictable
pattern.
Within the MoQ,
these patterns are morally categorized into a four-level,
evolutionary,
hierarchical
structure:
intellectual,
social,
biological,
and inorganic.
Static quality exists in stable patterns relative to other patterns.
Patterns have no independent,
inherent existence. ---
On May 9, 2013, at 3:37 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> dmb,
>
> On May 9, 2013, at 2:18 PM, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> dmb said to Marsha:
>> ...But the question remains and the answer is totally obvious; are logical
>> contradictions bad or not? Yes, of course they are. And given the context,
>> your contradictory use of the MOQ's key terms in a MOQ discussion group,
>> that particular contradiction is very, very bad.
>>
>> Marsha replied:
>> To David Harding you wrote "logical contradictions", so I thought you were
>> addressing the law of non-contradiction. But if not, on what basis do you
>> find contradiction?
>>
>> dmb says:
>> Logically consistency is not the exclusive property of subject-object
>> metaphysics and one need not subscribe to Plato's or Aristotle's way of
>> thinking either. Even after rejecting SOM and replacing it with a completely
>> different metaphysics, Pirsig still thinks that proper definitions and
>> logical consistency are necessary and important standards for intellectual
>> quality.
>
> Marsha:
> For you logical consistency seems to be whatever you think, since you have
> offered no basis on which to make a judgement. I suppose this is the problem
> with thinking truth is whatever is best for you.
>
> Btw, the article 'Laws of Thought' was a bit of a philosophic history the
> three major laws, and it did not even mention the Correspondence Theory of
> Truth.
>
>
>> Pirsig says in chapter 8 of Lila:"The tests of truth are logical
>> consistency, agreement with experience, and economy of explanation. The MOQ
>> satisfies these."
>> At the end of chapter 29 he says:"The MOQ also says that DQ - the
>> value-force that chooses an elegant mathematical solution to a laborious
>> one, or a brilliant experiment of a confusing, inconclusive one - is another
>> matter altogether. ...Dynamic value is an integral part of science. It is
>> the cutting edge of scientific progress itself."
>
>
> Marsha:
> I notice you did not deal with my actual explanation/definition of static
> patterns of value. You did not point out any inconsistency. My think my
> explanation is logically consistent, it demonstrates economy of explanation
> and above all it is in agreement with my experience.
>
>
>> This the second quote also shows that intellectual quality and DQ are NOT
>> mutually exclusive. Pirsig's expansion of rationality incorporates and
>> formally recognizes DQ in the operations of intellect and in the scientific
>> method. That is also what distinguishes dialectic from rhetoric. The
>> dialecticians think they are talking about reality itself and the universal
>> laws of logic which correspond to that determinate reality. The rhetorician
>> knows he's only talking about analogies.
>
> Marsha:
> So on what basis do you find my explanation/definition inconsistent? Here it
> is:
>
> --- Static patterns of value are repetitive processes (multiple events),
> conditionally co-dependent, impermanent and ever-changing, that pragmatically
> tend to persist and change within a stable, predictable pattern. Within the
> MoQ, these patterns are morally categorized into a four-level, evolutionary,
> hierarchical structure: inorganic, biological, social and intellectual.
> Static quality exists in stable patterns relative to other patterns.
> Patterns have no independent, inherent existence. ---
>
>
>> Buddhism is also provides you no excuse to speak so badly and
>> inconsistently. The Buddha himself, apparently, thought words should be
>> tested and examined and the Dali Lama thinks logical inconsistency is
>> downright TABOO!
>>
>> the Buddha said:"Just as the wise accept gold after testing it by heating,
>> cutting and rubbing it, so are my words to be accepted after examining them,
>> but not out of respect for me."
>>
>> As the Dali Lama said:"A general stance of Buddhism is that it is
>> inappropriate to hold a view that is logically inconsistent. This is taboo.
>> But even more taboo than holding a view that is logically inconsistent is
>> holding a view that goes against direct experience."
>>
>> Traleg Rinpoche:
>> "In the Buddha's early discourses on the Four Noble Truths, the Noble
>> Eightfold Path begins with the cultivation of the correct view...Without a
>> conceptual framework, meditative experiences would be totally
>> incomprehensible. What we experience in meditation has to be properly
>> interpreted, and its significance-or lack thereof-has to be understood. This
>> interpretive act requires appropriate conceptual categories and the correct
>> use of those categories... .While we are often told that meditation is about
>> emptying the mind, that it is the discursive, agitated thoughts of our mind
>> that keeps us trapped in false appearances, meditative experiences are in
>> fact impossible without the use of conceptual formulations... ."
>>
>> But you've heard all this before. You've this evidence already.
>>
>> Shall I expect the same old pattern? You've ask a question and received a
>> serious answer. Isn't this where you declare how much you don't care about
>> the answer or find some way to dismiss it and thereby evade the substance of
>> the matter?
>
>
> Marsha:
> I care that my explanation agrees with my experience; which it does. I find
> no substance in this post to support your allegation of 'inconsistency'
> concerning my actual explanation of static patterns of value. And what you
> _believe_ is bad doesn't work for me.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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