[djh] In the MOQ there are two sets of morals though DMB. Not one. It is [Dynamic Quality] moral to reject [static] morals.
[Arlo] As DMB points out, there are not two sets of morals, but rather an evolutionary hierarchy. And while Dynamic Quality opposes static quality (and vice versa), I think the Code of Art is about much more than simply rejecting patterns. By definition, "art" is creational. Pirsig calls it simply "a high quality endeavor", and I think in every instance its used its about the creation of something; a rotisserie, a working motorcycle, an essay in a college rhetoric class, a book on philosophy, etc. [djh] Without a 'rejection' or 'killing' of static quality things never change, they never get better. [Arlo] Exactly, and this is why rejecting patterns is conflict. You can't have change without conflict, unless you don't understand what conflict means. The Brujo example you cited is an example of this. He was following 'betterness', and this created conflict with existing patterns, which through the resolution of that conflict were made better. [djh] Mental illness is evidence a person in driven by DQ because unless they are insane when born, they will at some point value the static patterns of the culture and be a part of that culture.... Lila's mental illness is evidence she has stopped being driven by DQ... [Arlo] I imagine you think this makes sense (and I imagine you'll invoke an 'eastern' insight to say so), but you really have too many contradictory things going on, and maybe part of your problem is you're trying to use generalities. Your last post has it up to three (maybe four) different type of 'mental illness', some evidence of, some evidence against, some maybe unrelated (I am not sure where you'd characterize 'biological' mental illness). And now you've moved to characterize Phaedrus as either never mentally ill, or never stopping being driven by Dynamic Quality, and this is now a knot of words I can't unravel. [djh] But Arlo, as stated in the quote provided RMP explicitly says that in the East sq and DQ often exist harmoniously together. [Arlo] I'd say balance, or equilibrium, but that does not mean the patterns are no longer in conflict. I suggest watching the Argument Clinic from Monty Python. [djh] To reiterate - a ritual could be going at the speed limit. It is possible to be free of the speed limit while following this ritual! [Arlo] I have no doubt that ritual can free the person to attend to Dynamic Quality, but I can't imagine if the Brujo just made of ritual of obeying the laws, rather brought them into conflict, anything would have changed. By the way, what you're describing is not a rejection of the speed limit, but complete acquiescence to the point where they become habitual. The monks in your tea ceremony example are not rejecting the tea ceremony, they have accepted it and have worked to make it so habitual they no longer have to attend to it. That's quite a difference. [djh] No not because biological patterns are not static quality but because an act such as suicide can be found in an encyclopaedia and is just low biological quality and not an actual rejection or killing of static patterns. [Arlo] If 'suicide' is low quality because it is in an encyclopedia, then so is 'existence'. But, to use your example, if I kill a cow, or a germ, you're saying these are not 'killing of static patterns'? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
