Andre,
Marsha:
Sorry, but I cannot follow your reasoning and have little interest in your
personal opinion.
I wrote:
The static world is not an illusion, the static world is like an illusion.
All conditioned dharmas
Are like dreams, illusions, bubbles, shadows,
Like dew drops and a lightning flash.
Contemplate them thus.
(The Diamond Sutra)
Andre asked:
Do you believe that the atomic bombs that dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
were illusory?
Marsha said:
All conceptions and mental images that "atomic bombs that dropped on Hiroshima
and Nagasaki" might signify are a counterfeit of the actual event. It is in
this understanding that I say it is "like" an illusion.
Marsha:
Would you like to ask for my moral evaluation this a philosophical isolate?
Marsha
> On Oct 17, 2013, at 1:32 PM, Andre <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Marsha to dmb & Andre:
> The purpose of mystic meditation is not to remove oneself from experience but
> to bring one's self closer to it by eliminating stale, confusing, static,
> intellectual attachments of the past. " (LILA, Chapter 9)
>
> I have no direct experience of the atomic bombs that dropped on Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki. Tell me what you know of the atomic bombs that dropped on Hiroshima
> and Nagasaki and how you know it?
>
> Andre:
> And this is your 'defense' regarding your conditional and hypothetical moral
> denial (!) of the reality of the dropping of the atomic bombs and the horror
> called the holocaust? Appealing to your vipassana injunctions?
>
> The incredible horror of your stance and its implications are beyond your
> intellectual grasp. You literally fail to comprehend the implications of what
> you are saying.
>
> Because you did not have 'direct experience' of it? Bloody hell! Those that
> DID directly experience it are DEAD Lucy. In your warped and bigoted way of
> reasoning those few that survived came close but did not have the same direct
> experience. So what do they know eh? And what did they leave behind for us?
>
> What a pathetic, morally contemptible response totally at odds with the MoQ.
> And not only with the MoQ.
>
> All of the perennial philosophies, all the wisdom traditions, all the saints
> and sages over the past few millennia who stuck their heads out to teach,
> advise and assist and write when and where needed. Some were even killed for
> it. Marsha does not even speak from the perspective of 'the wold of the
> buddhas'.
>
> Do you think they did that because they were convinced that sq patterns were
> 'like an illusion'?
>
> May as well discuss whether the actions of a Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot,
> Mugabe, Idi Amin, Nixon, Bush and many others, (responsible for the killing
> of over 100 million people during the last century) were 'conditionally', or
> 'like an illusion' real or not. The promulgation of this sort of reasoning
> undermines the MoQ to no end and I doubt very much if Pirsig himself is
> impressed with this (alleged) (ab)use of his MoQ interpretation. And I
> mention this because she cites Anthony's PhD and Pirsig's writings to
> legitimize these claims.
>
> I would go so far as thinking that any poster here on this discuss would find
> this unacceptable. But, apart from dmb's efforts no-one has reacted.We find
> ourselves having to defend and justify a moral position that acknowledges
> mankind's worst atrocities (the very center of some of the moral codes Pirsig
> identified) as real as rocks and trees and find this position opposed by an
> anti-intellectualism and subjective solipsism that does not seem to have any
> bounds. If there is one it is surrounded by egotistical narcissism.
>
> I urge Horse to take some sort of action. This is doing the Discuss nor
> Pirsig's MoQ any good. I openly and blatantly request Marsha (in true Lucy
> form) to be removed from this MoQ discussion site, whether is be temporarily
> or permanently
>
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