D.Thomas to dmb:
But you must admit that Pirsig, from a philosophical perspective, is not
much on providing definitions.
Andre:
Huh? Only that which cannot be defined. Just look, as an example, to
Annotation 46 of Lila's Child. Furthermore about these
annotations...they can all be seen as clarifications/definitions of what
Pirsig means.
So what does David T want defined? He continues:
'"Direct experience" is not a commonly used phrase in everyday American
speech. But this phase is very common, if not essential to Buddhism.'
Andre:
Ah, he wants 'Direct experience' defined. David attempts clarification
by pulling in Buddhism: 'So to explore both fields he gave us
kayanupassana (observation of the body) and cittanupassana (observation
of the mind)"' And, to be clear sees this as a definition of 'Direct
experience'. Later he pulls Mao in and contrasts them.
Baffled he asks:
From the way that Pirsig uses "direct experience" in his axiom; How can
you be sure which way he is using it? Is it internal observation of
one's own mind and body or is it Mao's external observation of one's
environment, or both ? How do you know? I surely can't make the distinction.
Andre:
You have set up a wonderful red herring. A straw man I suppose and it's
really of your own making. Of course you cannot make the distinction you
yourself set up because both are NOT what Pirsig means by Quality (pure
experience/DQ). The 'exploration' you are talking about is sq all the
way and has nothing to do with DQ.
And, by the way, where do you see the line demarcating
internal/external? There's no such thing!
David T:
And the Pirsig example that I go back to again and again is his claim
that "capitalism" is a social pattern, while "communism" is an
intellectual one.
Andre:
This is blatantly not true David. Pirsig argues that socialism is an
intellectually GUIDED society. Capitalism just a system for justifying
the exploitation of the poor by the rich to support their own
self-interest. (LILA,p 225)
You're jumbling things up that are simply not so.
Enough for now.
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