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> On Feb 9, 2014, at 1:28 PM, david <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Horse said to dmb:
> 
> I agree with much of what you say but it's still very important to remember 
> that DNA-based life is no more than one possible way for life to exist and 
> that it involves an environment and a context. Not having experienced 
> something (or maybe mis-interpreting something that we do experience) should 
> not blind us to the probability that it exists. Isn't this part of the 
> 'Cleveland Harbor Effect'?
> 
> dmb says:
> I think the lesson of the Cleveland Harbor Effect is other way around. "It 
> was a parable for students of scientific objectivity," he says. To say "he 
> rejected the observation and followed the chart" is to say to ignored the 
> actual experience because of what he thought. What he thought acted as a 
> static filter, "shutting out all information that did not fit." (This is good 
> description of what's known as "confirmation bias".)
> 
> The idea of life that's not DNA-based is not exactly comparable, because 
> there are no observations or experiences being ignored. The idea, I think, is 
> only based on extrapolating upon the biological charts we already have. I 
> mean, nothing like that has been observed. It's reasonable and I don't think 
> there is any ideological resistance to it but it is pure speculation, a 
> plausible abstraction for which there is no empirical evidence. As far as I 
> know, anyway. 
> 
> The Cleveland Harbor Effect is about throwing out NEW "facts" when they don't 
> fit with the intellectual patterns. "When a new fact comes in that does not 
> fit the pattern we don’t throw out the pattern. We throw out the fact." Here, 
> I think, "facts" are empirical reality while the patterns are conceptual (and 
> for a radical empiricist like Pirsig empirical reality always comes first and 
> concepts are always secondary). It seems to me that non-DNA life forms would 
> be greeted as an exciting discovery. Sci-Fi writers and real scientists have 
> been dreaming about it for a while. If a "contradictory fact has to keep 
> hammering and hammering and hammering, sometimes for centuries, before maybe 
> one or two people will see it," then alternative life forms would be 
> something like the opposite. It's an abstract pattern that keeps hammering 
> and hammering and lots of people desperately want to see it - but nobody ever 
> has.

Ron:
 I think that is going to raise some
Debate but I believe you hit it square 
With the Cleveland harbor metaphor,
He rationalized explanations thereby
Justifying the rejecting of the empirical "facts". It has practicle
Consequences in experience.
However I sense some dispute in
That a dialectical arguement regarding deduction inference and verification Not 
to mention imagination and intuition will be leveled on Your post.
On this I can only agree that experience must inform our deductions inferences 
and intuitions
Not the other way around.
There is a difference between verifying a theory and justifying
Belief, it's what seperates scientific
Method from alien conspiracy theories, or Bigfoot hunts.


.
> 
> 
> 
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