All, I'm just going to sum up my response to y'all in a big lump sum. Wouldn't want to go over my limit, heh.
But first, Dan. Dan, I'll give you a copy if you'll give me Lila's child. I somehow lost my copy over the years and it looks like I'm going to need it. Not with you guys, of course - you all know it. But I see my way clear now to a masterly thesis. I'ce got three paragraphs already circled in Randy's book that I KNOW are MoQ orthodox, and while I can't sell anyone on the idea that Royce co responds with Pirsig, (even tho they never once corresponded at all) I'm thinking I bet I could interest the Royceans in the same fact. So far I haven't been able to sell it, because it's just my word for what the MoQ actually says. And even I admit I'm no expert. I'm sure y'all will back me up on that one. Lila's child has the whole thing, in quotable format. Nice. But I don't see it as my mission to persuade anybody over here, that I'm write - espectially dmb and Andre. We've argued it out so much that sides are hardened beyond rationality. There's no reason to go on and on about it. John PS: Randy's been busy editing a paper on Dewey and Quality while he's here so it's cut down on our sittin' time. I'll try and get a peek at it - it certainly has an intriguing title. On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Andre <[email protected]> wrote: > dmb says: > Good point, Andre (and Ant). DQ is experience itself, which is also known > as "the primary empirical reality," while faith is approximately the > opposite of that. > > Andre: > Thanks dmb. The grotesque problem with Ian's suggestion is that it > seriously nullifies Pirsig's effort and shows a complete misunderstanding > of Pirsig's achievement. The suggestion really reintroduces a religious > faith again, in this case in 'quality'. One can only look on in horror and > disbelief what a philosopher like Plato would do with this and since most > subsequent philosophies are mere 'footnotes to Plato' we return to > what?...faith and superstition, Absolutism, Objectivism, Realism, > Subjectivism, modernity, post-modernity, post-post-modernity? > > dmb to Dan: > > Good point, Dan. I think art, science and religion are all under one > umbrella, as you put it, because DQ is the source of each. > > Andre: > Yes and this refers of course to what happened with the three during the > Enlightenment Era... . For obvious reasons they were ripped apart but as > Ken Wilber argues, the tragedy was that they were left dangling on their > own. They were never reintegrated because one never identified the ground, > the root, the foundation from which all three sprang...i.e. DQ or Quality. > The result was and still is devastating: > Ken Wilber: > 'We have flatland. We looked at this as good news, bad news. The good news > of modernity was that the Big Three were differentiated- art, science, > morals (religion). The bad news was that they had not yet been integrated, > and this allowed an explosive science [without any morals] to colonize and > dominate the I and we domains'. > (Ken Wilber, A Brief History of Everything' p 226). > > Of course Wilber has his own agenda and his own ways of saying and doing > things but I am pretty sure he is no enemy of the MOQ. > > Pirsig of course reintegrates the lot of them and many others because: > 'a Quality-centered map of the universe provides overwhelming clarity of > explanation where all has been fog before. In the arts, which are primarily > concerned with value, this was expected. A surprise, however, came in the > fields that were supposed to have little to do with value. Mathematics, > physics, biology, history, law- all of these had value foundations built > into them that now came under scrutiny and all sorts of surprising things > were revealed. > Once a thief is caught a whole string of crimes is often solved'. (LILA, p > 109) > > Without wanting to interfere/disturb too much it seems that Ian as well as > John are trying to put on a burglary act without realizing (?) what they > are potentially robbing us of. > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- "finite players play within boundaries. Infinite players play *with* boundaries." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
