Not at all, Ron.
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Ron Kulp <[email protected]> wrote: > John, > Ok, you feel creativity stands above excellence. But I ask, how is > creativity set apart from problem solving? Isn't necessity the mother if > invention? > - Ron > > I feel that creativity stands side-by-side with excellence. It's a marriage, not a hierarchy. John > > On Jun 9, 2014, at 1:15 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Ron, > > > > > > Ron: > > > >> I think the main problem is the beginning assumptions about what > >> The term "intellect " means, to you. > > > > Jc: I'm sure that's true. Just about any philosophic problem hangs on > our > > assumptions. > > > > Ron: > > > > > >> Several definitions mention it as a faculty of the mind, a function of > >> consciousness, the act of critical > >> Thinking. > > > > > > jc: The act of critical thinking comes closest to my view. Everybody > has > > a mind, but not everybody uses their intellect. > > > > Ron; > > > > > >> But you by-pass those entries and hold to what interests you. > > > > > > > > Jc: What interests me Ron, is that "the act of critical thinking" is > only > > half the story. Why then does the MoQ make it seem like the whole > > enchilada? > > > > Ron: > > > > > >> That traditional misunderstanding, which is what it is, > >> A traditional misunderstanding of the meaning of "intellect" handed down > >> by the Greeks. That misunderstanding is objectivism. Robert Pirsigs > project > >> Is to correct this misunderstanding. > >> That's why it's important to read Plato and Aristotle and understand > >> The origin of the Greek meaning and tradition of intellect. The project > is > >> about the recovery of a tradition of thought before misinterpretation > >> divided it. "Art is born when out of the many bits if information > derived > >> from experience there emerges a grasp of those similarities in view of > >> which they are unified whole." > >> Aristotle metaphysics book alpha. > >> > >> "Knowing in the truest sense concerns > >> What is best in the truest sense. So intellect finds it's fulfillment in > >> being aware of the intelligible. " > >> > >> "It is this better state that the divine has being and life, the self > >> sufficient activity of the divine is life at its eternal best." > >> - book Lambda > >> > >> To the Greeks knowing what is best > >> Is the divine aspect of being. > > > > > > > >>> > >>> JohnC > >>> > >>> PS: By "respond" I mean without resorting to "because RMP said so". > >>> Since's it's Pirsig's terminology I'm taking to task here, something > more > >>> is needed to defend it than the mere fact of what Pirsig said. > >> Ron: > >> How else are we to tie into what we mean. This is a site dedicated to > his > >> work. > > > > > > What I mean is, since I'm addressing a shortcoming in Pirsig's view, it's > > nonsensical to respond with "but that's Pirsig's view". or "you don't > > understand the MoQ" > > > > Look at the story - Phaedrus licked the daemon of objective intellect, > > right? And this thing, that he hated, was in himself as well, right? > That > > which endlessly analyzes and examines critically. Then in Lila, he falls > > back into, what he terms himself, "degenerate activity". (Matt 12:43-45) > > > > But the immorality was not doing metaphysics, the immorality was > > enthroning intellect as the king of all static being. The reason I say > > immoral is, because intellect was also doing the crowning. A king cannot > > crown himself. There must be otherness, at the top level to avoid > > recursion. > > > > Also immoral, because making the MoQ thus, allows intellect to bully and > > rule over all other patterns, putting itself first and reifying itself, > it > > then kills all opposition and alternative thinking. It's too static. DQ > > has been placed in the unobtainable ether where its inaccessible and we > > don't talk about it anymore. My solution is to bring it down to earth, > and > > make artistic imagination the partner of intellect at the 4th level and > not > > only is that satisfying (there's no place for ART in the MoQ!!) it's a > > logical solution because without imaginative conceptualization, there is > > nothing to critically analyze. Intellect is good at selecting among > given > > ideas - but then where do given ideas come from? Not intellect, or > > Phaedrus would have deduced how hypothesi arose. > > > > Thanks for hearing me out, Ron. > > > > John > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- "finite players play within boundaries. Infinite players play *with* boundaries." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
