[Craig, previously] Perhaps we should look for examples of social immorality:
I promise to meet you, but don't meet up. We agree to meet, but I don't meet up. I intend to meet you (but don't promise to) & I realize you recognize my intention, but don't meet up. You expect me to meet you and I realize this, but I don't meet up. I intend to meet you, but don't meet up. Which of these are humans but not animals capable of? Which of these are 3rd level & which are merely 2nd level? [Arlo had replied] For Tomasello, and others following the socio-cultural tradition, all of these are social. [Craig] Yes, but what about my questions? [Arlo] Well, this directly answers your second question, all of these are 3rd level (social) activities. As to the first, I think I answered that as well, although I apologize if that was unclear. [Arlo previously] They all derive from semiotically-mediated activity. Even the ones that are not outright 'verbal' above require some manner of language to enable the activity. [Arlo continues] All of these evidence enough necessary semiotic mediation as to make them exclusively human activities. As for something I might point to as an example of primitive social (mediated, purposeful, semiotic, agenic activity) displayed by a non-human species would be something like a primate directing the attention of another primate to a stick, and that primate picks up and hands the stick to the first primate. In this case, although it is semiotically-mediated, the mediation is primitive enough so as not to require sophisticated language use. In your examples, 'intent' that is able to formulate 'in the future' requires a necessary complex enough code as to render 'in the future' intelligible. So although the primates in this example must share attention (biological), and must extend that into a mediated exchange of intentional activity (social), it is something that pales in comparison to the social activity enabled by complex semiosis. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
