Hi Arlo, Good to hear from you.
> [David] > Second only to the MOQ you like biological things? The MOQ would say that is immoral. > > [Arlo] > I think the MOQ would only say this is immoral only if social and intellectual values were being subordinated to biological patterns. I am not sure we can deduce from Jan-Anders short reply that such a subordination is occurring. If Jan-Anders preference for beer and boobs was advocating alcoholism and rape, then, yeah, for sure the MOQ would have something to say about the immorality of this preference. Just thought it strange that these were the first things he said. And your answers confuse me too. Maybe I'd assumed most would immediately think of intellectual or Dynamic pursuits. I just figure some folks on here like yourself are pretty intelligent and might have some ideas about what's valuable in either of these areas. To my surprise neither JA or yourself has really said anything on either of these two levels. But if that's how it is then so be it. > > But I don't think the MOQ makes elitist claims about what a person should "like" or "value". I mean, is it immoral to prefer punk-rock to Wagnerian opera? To enjoy hiking more than painting? Pizza more than soccer? Or soccer more than Greek drama? Yes of course each to their own. The MOQ doesn't give the final answer. It's just the beginning so to speak. The MOQ provides us with a language with which we can discuss and indeed disagree about what's valuable. A healthy, well thought out MOQ based disagreement about the moral standing of punk rock v Wagner opera I think would indeed be worth listening to. But that's not really why I asked the question. The reason is explained above. > Also, to be fair too, you didn't actually ask what people value "second to the MOQ". Right I asked generally what's valuable. But why should the assumption be randomness? This is an MOQ discussion board. I assume folks are living by it or at least trying to and will give their best. > [David] > Anyone have anything worthwhile they value other than the MOQ itself? > > [Arlo] > I'm guessing from your reply to Jan-Anders that your question, and your addition of the word "worthwhile" here, is not so much about what people value, but what they SHOULD value. And I'm guessing what you wanted was for people to say things like art, violin concertos, poetry, and maybe mediation and tea ceremonies. Or maybe you were looking for the big categories: love, honor, trust, etc. > > In any event, I have to say I agree with Jan-Anders, two things I value (besides the MOQ) are: the camaraderie of friends and the warmth of intimacy. Me too. They're valuable for sure. But I wasn't really asking about what was randomly good. > What do I value "second to the MOQ"? Most days I'd answer "empathy". Some days, I'd consider answering "Hannah" (my daughter), but she mostly holds a second-to-nothing spot. But on a cold, snowy, winter's day like today, I admit I'd be tempted to go with winter ale and a warm embrace. (TL/DR; agape, philia, eros). I must be too intellectual. I find love a social thing and a word used in so many different ways I don't really know what it intellectually means. Empathy though less ambiguous still very much social. Beer's anti intellectual and takes things to the lower levels. Does that mean I don't love or drink beer? Of course not, I love everyday and drink most weekends. I just thought there might be something good out there which all else being equal is good and worth recommending to someone if they asked. I'm also interested in what folks on MD value other than the MOQ itself. I'd be lying if I wasn't surprised by the first two responses so I guess this has been worth it. Thank-you, David Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
