Hi JA, Thanks for your explanation below. Much appreciated. I must try the "Kaggen stormaktsporter” some time although I see it’s retired?
On 12 December 2014 at 6:16:39 pm, Jan-Anders Andersson ([email protected]) wrote: David Of course the phrase "Titties & Beer", which is the title of the piece of music by Frank Zappa I happened to be listening to while answering, at a first glance would sound somewhat blasphemic to the MOQ. But, living in a social constellation of several humans where women take a good part of the time, the knowledge about how to keep things at the four different levels straight according to their morals is quite useful. The experience of a well-balanced social pattern, regarding amount, form and expression should not be underestimated. I have been involved in a micro brewery for decades and learned a lot about the fine art of brewing a good beer. Without the understanding about the difference between physics and chemistry, organics, sociology, psychology, computer and process mathematics, economics and law, we never would have reached the top at the charts. A perfect balanced beer such as "Kaggen stormaktsporter" would never appeared without ZAMM and LILA. MOQ is not just a brain dance, it is a tool for making something good while you are alive. cheers Jan-Anders > 12 dec 2014 kl. 00:58 skrev David Harding <[email protected]>: > > Hi Arlo, > > Good to hear from you. > >> [David] >> Second only to the MOQ you like biological things? The MOQ would say that > is immoral. >> >> [Arlo] >> I think the MOQ would only say this is immoral only if social and > intellectual values were being subordinated to biological patterns. I am > not sure we can deduce from Jan-Anders short reply that such a > subordination is occurring. If Jan-Anders preference for beer and boobs was > advocating alcoholism and rape, then, yeah, for sure the MOQ would have > something to say about the immorality of this preference. > > Just thought it strange that these were the first things he said. And your > answers confuse me too. Maybe I'd assumed most would immediately think of > intellectual or Dynamic pursuits. I just figure some folks on here like > yourself are pretty intelligent and might have some ideas about what's > valuable in either of these areas. To my surprise neither JA or yourself > has really said anything on either of these two levels. But if that's how > it is then so be it. > >> >> But I don't think the MOQ makes elitist claims about what a person should > "like" or "value". I mean, is it immoral to prefer punk-rock to Wagnerian > opera? To enjoy hiking more than painting? Pizza more than soccer? Or > soccer more than Greek drama? > > Yes of course each to their own. The MOQ doesn't give the final answer. > It's just the beginning so to speak. The MOQ provides us with a language > with which we can discuss and indeed disagree about what's valuable. A > healthy, well thought out MOQ based disagreement about the moral standing > of punk rock v Wagner opera I think would indeed be worth listening to. But > that's not really why I asked the question. The reason is explained above. > >> Also, to be fair too, you didn't actually ask what people value "second > to the MOQ". > > Right I asked generally what's valuable. But why should the assumption be > randomness? This is an MOQ discussion board. I assume folks are living by > it or at least trying to and will give their best. > >> [David] >> Anyone have anything worthwhile they value other than the MOQ itself? >> >> [Arlo] >> I'm guessing from your reply to Jan-Anders that your question, and your > addition of the word "worthwhile" here, is not so much about what people > value, but what they SHOULD value. And I'm guessing what you wanted was for > people to say things like art, violin concertos, poetry, and maybe > mediation and tea ceremonies. Or maybe you were looking for the big > categories: love, honor, trust, etc. >> >> In any event, I have to say I agree with Jan-Anders, two things I value > (besides the MOQ) are: the camaraderie of friends and the warmth of > intimacy. > > Me too. They're valuable for sure. But I wasn't really asking about what > was randomly good. > >> What do I value "second to the MOQ"? Most days I'd answer "empathy". Some > days, I'd consider answering "Hannah" (my daughter), but she mostly holds a > second-to-nothing spot. But on a cold, snowy, winter's day like today, I > admit I'd be tempted to go with winter ale and a warm embrace. (TL/DR; > agape, philia, eros). > > I must be too intellectual. I find love a social thing and a word used in > so many different ways I don't really know what it intellectually means. > Empathy though less ambiguous still very much social. Beer's anti > intellectual and takes things to the lower levels. > > Does that mean I don't love or drink beer? Of course not, I love everyday > and drink most weekends. I just thought there might be something good out > there which all else being equal is good and worth recommending to someone > if they asked. I'm also interested in what folks on MD value other than > the MOQ itself. I'd be lying if I wasn't surprised by the first two > responses so I guess this has been worth it. > > Thank-you, > > David > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
