[Bo]
> For goodness sake look in ZMM on the diagram page
> wherever that may be in your edition! If you have
that book?
Ah, you meant there is an actual diagram. It's
been some time since I read ZMM and Lila. I looked it
up. I see the diagram now, and then I read further in
the chapter about classical quality being all
manifestations and romantic quality is
non-manifestations. Classical quality can be called
different names such as subjects and objects. I've
never thrown out S and O, but you could also call
these manifestations. I'm not stuck on the divide.
Manifestations is S and O with no divide. Notice
manifestations is another word used by Pirsig in the
same exact chapter with the diagrams.
[Bo
> You refuse to understand the ocean/wave - um -
> analogy. MOQ's
> fundamental split is the dynamic/static one. It's no
> use repeating
> that static inorganic patterns (rocks) only are DQ
> defined ... the
> source of all things etc. What is static is NOT
> dynamic!
Rocks are an analogy of dq. Wave is part of the
ocean. Static is NOT dynamic! It's all quality.
[SA previously]
> > Not quite sure what all this language and in the
> > human mind talk is about.
[Bo]
> Phew, it was you who introduced it
I never used the words language and human mind.
Check the archives. You brought this up, not me. All
I said was rock is an analogy of dq. I haven't said
anything that complex. I've been just talking about
rocks simply. The rocks you find on the earth.
Sandstone, shale, slate, coal, chert, and limestone,
these are what I see around here. I also
know/believe, other than some here, that these rocks
will be here when I'm dead.
[Bo]
> "Human beings". Doesn't that spell "mind" and/or
> "language"?
I said human beings can CHAT about rocks. You
could focus on the word beings too if you wanted. Not
quite sure why your focused on the chatting part when
I had a full sentence going. Humans only chat about
rocks as far as I know. Maybe other animals do, I'm
not sure. That's all I was saying.
[Bo]
> I agree most profoundly with this, but then you
> introduced
> "human beings",
I assume quality introduced human beings.
[Bo]
> ...presumably as if the human mind
> and/or its
> language overrides Quality, as if Quality is a
> mind/language
> pattern.
See your stuck on this language/mind pattern
stuff. Not quite sure why?
[Bo]
> This is exactly where Pirsig sins by -
> first - defining
> intellect as mind and then the MOQ as an
> intellectual pattern.
Well, I don't hear chipmunks chatting about the
MoQ, but maybe they do. I did say I wasn't quite
sure.
[Bo]
> After the Paul Turner letter he re-defined intellect
> as "symbol
> manipulation" (language) and then the MOQ became a
> language
> pattern.
> The MOQ will never work until we return to
> Phaedrus'
> insight that intellect=SOM.
How are objects intellect, all in YOUR head.
There not all in my head. As to this divide, isn't
manifestations beyond this divide. Static quality is
one word covering everything without a divide. Not
sure why this divide is a must.
[Bo]
> But this seems to be
> anathema. Now
> that I'm back the defender of orthodoxy - DMB - has
> retreated in
> hurt silence.
Oh, a some ego, too. A little chest pounding
maybe, I see.
[Bo]
> And Laird who raised the SOL issue
> (and fooled me
> into believing that he had seen something)
> disappeared without a
> trace. Ok, this is not your "fault" ;-)
I guess not.
[Bo]
> Again, the DQ/SQ is MOQ's fundamental divide. A rock
> - the universe itself - is the first static
"fallout". I
> don't see the purpose
> of repeating the obvious that this "wave" really is
> "ocean". That
> goes without saying.
Thanks. That's all I was saying. Just wasn't
sure about the re-inventing the wheel. I don't see a
divide. A real sandstone rock is an analogy of dq.
Glad you agree. Since I don't have to repeat myself
anymore, then I guess we're done discussing, maybe?
Yet, I feel your not understanding me. So, we can
keep chattin' if you want.
cloudy, windy, snow on the earth, feelin' heartbeat -
this is all a day,
SA
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