Mark 02-02-07: Hi Case. It seems to me this is what you ARE suggesting: Life is reducible to chemistry and physics. Case is chemistry and physics.
[Case] Case is chemistry and physics and family and friends and work and play and all kinds of relationships. Ultimately they all reduce physics but with each level of reduction something is lost. What is lost is all of the nifty new relationships acquired as each new level emerged from the ones below that. Mark 02-02-07: How can X co-operate with Y if X = Y? [Case] What is that supposed to mean? Mark: 4. Therefore, biological life does not obey entropy. Case: 4c. Find me a serious biologist who claims that biology violates any of the laws of thermodynamics. Mark 02-02-07: One who believes in evolution may? [Case] No, I said name one. Any one will do. We are looking for a biologist who claims that biology violates any of the laws of thermodynamics. [Mark] Life evolves and grows in complexity. If entropy is a measure of a system's tendency to lose complexity then it's pretty clear biological evolution is defying entropy by definition. Chemicals don't spontaneously form Case, they need millions of years to do it. On the other hand, place Case, stark buck bollocks naked out in the Sun with no food or water for a few weeks and he's going to end up whiffing a bit. [Case] Entropy is not a measurement of complexity it is a measurement of energy dissipating. Energy neither increases nor decreases it just changes form. I have mentioned several times how inappropriate Pirsig's tale of people left on rocks is. Now you cite it back to me? Chemicals do spontaneous produce life forms. That is what biology is all about. But it really would help if you had the faintest clue what you were talking about. Mark: 01-02-07: If energy may be said to be evolving, then it is evolving into structured states which resist entropy. But that's what life is, (thanks to Carbon chemistry) and it's what distinguishes it from the inorganic. [Case] Energy is just changing forms. There is no direction or goal to it. Carbon is important to us because it can form more kinds of relationships than other molecules. Water is similarly important. Both work their magic here on earth because the sun provides a constant supply of energy to transform them. Mark 02-02-07: So, Case IS chemistry and physics. [Case] Yes Case IS chemistry and physics and biology and society and psychology and lots of fun a the right sort of parties. 07-02-01: Case: The giant whirlpool part makes me uneasy but most or less. However, I do not see how this contradicts the moq. Mark 02-02-07: I'm not surprised it makes you uneasy. You've just replaced all the biologists in class with chemistry and physics professors. "Today kids we're going to talk about this chemical compound," indicates the professor pointing to a vast molecule on the blackboard. "Excuse me sir"? interjects a tentative voice, "But isn't that a Lion sir"? "You won't pass your chemistry exam using short cuts like that Case," smiles the kindly yet weary tutor. "This molecule is called, Pancarbonichydrogenicoxythermic...." (30 minutes later) "...protoacid." "Pardon sir?" [Case] I merely thought the whirlpool was a bit simplistic. Whirlpools, fire, currents, crystals, radioactive elements are all matter responding to energy. So is life. But what ever the above is supposed to mean it does not explain how anything I have said contradicts the moq. Mark 02-02-07: When you inform peoples like the beloved Skutvik one that you don't adhere to a conventional moq you certainly mean it don't you? sq patterns are dharmic ethical principles undergoing evolution toward higher states of Dynamism. This includes basic inorganic elements. The suggestion is this would be so even if there were no life forms. You appear to be suggesting an existentialist notion that your being is prior to value. As you now confirm: [Case] I do not give it a lot of thought but apparently my early exposure to existentialism took hold. What you seem to propose as an alternative is hand wringing and wishful thinking. moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
