Quoting Arlo Bensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > [Case] > We can bend and twist words to mean whatever we want. > > [Arlo] > Didn't "chaos" mean something different ten or twenty years ago? Our > understandings of quantum physics altered the entire way we think > about the fundamental undergirdings of "reality". And language > adapted to meet those changing understandings. All I am saying is > that a similar, radical shift in metaphysics necessitates rethinking > what words mean under the old S/O logic. "Value" is one. In the past > (and in most of the present), S/O logic dictates that "value" is > simply human subjective experience. The MOQ radically destroys that, > saying "value" is not "human subjective experience", but the Quality > experience that underlies all of reality, from quarks to Quantum Physics. > > I'm no longer really sure what we're arguing against, Case. You seem > to be suggesting that one can have the MOQ, but change none of the > ways of thinking or understanding we had previously. > > I see nothing in the eso-/exoteric differentiation here. I think the > strenght of the MOQ is that it doesn't invent new terms that are > understandable only by an initiated few. Value, Quality, these are > things everyone knows. There is nothing hidden or arcane in the > statement "an electron experiences inorganic value". It is a primary > statement of Quality everyone can relate to. I'd say, instead, it is > S/O dualism that makes the statement fuzzy. And I am in full > agreement with Bo on that front. Its because you are so intent of > sticking with the S/O definition of "value" (subjective experience) > that it makes this recasting seem fuzzy. Certainly it is idiotic to > suggest an electron experiences value in any conscious way as humans > do. And when your use of value is so restricted, Quality remains a > higher-level subjective experience. But the whole point of the MOQ > was to overcome the old S/O ways of thinking. "Value" is not > "subjective experience", it is primary experience going all the way > down to the lowest particles we can name. > > Relativity made us rethink what we mean by "time" and "space". > Quality makes us rethink what we mean by "value" and "experience". I > just don't see the problem.
Excellence response, Arlo. Your individuality shines! Platt ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
