Micah, The very fact that we can converse and have a difference of opinion Over a commonly held perception of reality lead me to believe that it Is primary. The fact that we commonly learn from extra sensory input lead me to believe That objective reality is primary. That is why I say that you and I read the same book seperatly and felt Differently about it means that pirsigs book is primary, our perception of It is secondary. I believe we would be unable to communicate if subjective reality were primary. Ham and I have been wanting to get you in On this for it is tough to pin down, I recently came to the conclusion that The value between subjective and objective is what is primary, that neither can Claim itself absolute, for when you try it becomes meaningless and filled with Logic traps and paradox. You may have an axe to grind with me, but I was sincerely trying to get to The heart of this. -x
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Micah Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?) Ron, How can you show objective reality is primary, objectively - without humans? Micah -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ron Kulp Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 8:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?) [Micah] Ron, I see where you, Case, and Platt misinterpret me. "Objective reality" doesn't mean reality is primary. Objective has a different meaning than primary. Not only do they have different meanings, they're spelled different. Now there is no "objective" way to show reality is primary, we would need to be present to prove it is primary, which is a contradiction. Reality is objective - not in my head, it however is not primary...I could go on or you could read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig. I am just restating what he said at his breakdown or breakthrough on "quality". You know Plato, Aristotle and the horns of a dilemma. A forum on Pirsig filled with people that don't understand Pirsig. Cool! Micah [x] Micah, Plain and simple, objective reality must be primary or we could not discuss Pirsig. moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
