Hi Dan If we are our experiences, then we should gesture at everything around us that we are experiencing.
David M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Glover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Art of Value > Hello everyone > >>From: "Case" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Reply-To: [email protected] >>To: <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: [MD] Art of Value >>Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 16:11:15 -0400 >> >>Dan: >>Then you should be able to show me the self. Where is it? Please point it >>out. >> >>[Case] >>I attempt to do that every time I sent in a post to the MoQ. > > Hi Case > > Thank you for writing. I think if you ask people to point to self you'll > find that they automatically point to the center of their body. We > associate > the body with self. But where is self in the body? Is it in the center > where > people point? Is it in the brain? I don't know. Do you? > >> >> >[Case] >> >Learning to see ones self as separate from the world is one of the first >> >tasks every infant confronts. It occurs during Piaget's sensorimotor >>stage. >> >Other stages of human development and understanding build upon and >> >transcend this stage. If as you suggest Buddhism strives for regression >>to >> >this state why do they call it transcendence? >> >>Dan: >>When I met my advisor at the first retreat I attended, I couldn't help but >>notice how like a child he seemed, in his actions as well as his words. I >>found it very endearing and later as the years went on I came to >>understand >>that his wisdom was so profound that all he could do was giggle about it. >> >>They speak of a gateless gate in Buddhism that we all as practitioner must >>pass through. It is not a regression nor a trancendence as we understand >>those terms. But if pressed, I would say the gate is both and yet neither. >>For when one passes through they realize what they were seeking was theirs >>all along. We just have to remember, that's all. >> >>[Case] >>As James notes there are a variety of religious experiences. > > Dan: > Buddhism is not a religion, imo. Not that I consider myself a Buddhist. > >>Case: >>But as Russell observes it is difficult to know what to make of another's >>purely personal experience. > > Dan: > See for yourself. > >>Case: >>"From a scientific point of view, we can make no distinction between the >>man >>who eats little and sees heaven and the man who drinks much and sees >>snakes." > > Dan: >>From a scientific point of view there is no self. > >>Case: >>You said, "We have to understand the true nature of people and things." It >>is difficult to see how looking inward could shed much light on this. > > Dan: > I know. > >>Case: >>In the town where I live we have a several mega-churches. One of them used >>to occasionally have a guest speaker named Rodney Howard Brown. During his >>sermons people in the congregation would experience religious ecstasy and >>begin to so laugh hysterically, they would fall to the floor, oblivious to >>their surroundings. What Brown was saying was no even remotely funny. He >>was >>not a comedian. He claimed this was a movement of the Holy Spirit and >>those >>so moved were in agreement. Never-the-less neither the fact of their >>collective actions nor the fact that they had established consensus was >>not >>enough to convince me that much could be made about their conclusions >>about >>the fundamental nature of reality. > > I am not a religious person. I used to go to several churches a lot but it > was to clean not to pray. The retreats I go on are nothing like the > religious retreats you might be familar with. So I think we are probably > talking past each other. > > Thank you for reading, > > Dan > > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
