Quoting Mati Palm-Leis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Platt and others, > > Platt, > Unfortunately U.S. public schools do not rank well compared to the rest of > the industrialized world. See the 2006 OECD report at: > > Mati: I understand the need to consult these types of articles, but they > themselves do not offer much in the way of real data or information as to > what is working in schools and what local, cultural and governmental factor > influences make a difference. My grandmother used to dislike people that > were critical of their lives in the US, in the wake of losing everything to > the Russians during WWII. She would say if you think it is so bad pack your > bags and move. Now I also understand that to do better is not forbidden. I > think we are constantly looking for ways to improve our schools in the wake > of greater expectations and greater challenges. If you would like to > suggest that our schools collectively are failing our kids I would like to > suggest that it might be more than schools that are failing our kids. If > you wish to think globally that is ok, but I am reminded that one can think > globally and act locally. I would strongly suggest (I am under the > assumption that you are one of many retired aged fellows with time on their > hands.) that you volunteer at a local school. This would serve two > purposes, first it would be a potentially invaluable opportunity to make a > difference. And secondly I suspect you haven't been in a school for a really > long time. This type of experience would bring you up to the reality of > schools of today. I posed the same challenge to my father and he never took > me up on it. Perhaps you could do better. It is one thing to play the blame > game of failure it is quite another provide a solution or make a difference.
If I thought I could make a difference I would. Unfortunately, the schools won't let me teach without meeting certain requirements. The local private schools are full staffed and lack openings for old codgers like me. > Platt: > In the past, "difficult to handle" kids were sent to reform school. > > Mati: Reform School???? Man, you might be older than I thought. The fact is > reform school (if they still exist) do little in the way of reforming. > Reforming is a fancy way of saying change. I would suggest that if we want > to change the lives of students then perhaps we should think about how we > can change our world that can give kids a chance to change. Changing the world is a big order. But, you have my ideas along that line for what they worth. Take what you want and leave the rest. But be assured I will never try to force my ideas on you or anyone else, unlike some in this forum. > Platt: > As for "special needs" children, it depends on the meaning of "special > needs." If a child is incapable of learning (snip...) > > Mati: All children are capable of learning. In fifteen plus years of > education I have not met a student that can't learn. So what then are "special needs" children? > Platt: ...it seems unfair to put them in a class with normal kids. > > Mati: Ahhhhhhh the fair word. Fair to whom?????? Fair to the kids who would learn more if they weren't held back by the slow learners. > Platt: > In other words, there are other solutions to the problems you present. It > seems to me the "rules" need changing. For example, how do other countries > address these problems? > > Mati: I think we are not short of rules and for the most part many have been > scrutinized up to our Supreme Court if there is a need for change I would be > interested in what rules you think need changing. Any rules you think are holding you and others back from providing quality education. > What really needs to be > changed is the belief that our kids' education is the sole responsibility of > schools. As far as what other countries are doing, well there are so many > differences in the nuances in how their educational systems work that to try > to apply them as a whole is impractical. But as I said in my last post we > know what good schools do, how we make that happen is as unique as the > individuals that attend these schools. What do good schools do that can't be made to happen everywhere? > Platt: > Yes, all this is important to a school's success. Equally important is a > culture that stimulates and rewards a work ethic as was prevalent in the > Victorian era and is today still strong in certain ethnic groups like Asians > and Jews. > > Mati: Work ethic is a learned feature or value. I was raised on a farm and > learned it the hard way. I was lucky. Many kids live in homes where > parents and grandparents for that matter don't invest the time and effort to > show the value of work and I am not talking about the value of money, but > the personal satisfaction of work accomplished. I remember the day I plowed > a 14 acre field from sunrise to dark on an old ford tractor and a three > bottom plow. I look back from my experience and recognize that I needed to > plow that field so it could be planted and harvested and the cows got fed. > I can't tell you the amount patience my parent had for the year prior of > being a lazy pre-teen who hated the farm it took a lot to finally learn that > very important lesson. If not maybe I would have ended up in reform school. > ;-) I take my hat off to all the "Asian and Jews" who as a family work > together and collectively understand the value of work and teach it to their > kids. I take my hat off to your parents, and their parents. Many today don't realize that wealth comes from work, not redistributions of wealth from government. > Platt: > Our culture to its detriment has become "compassionate" in this regard, > considering it "fair" to reward everyone equally regardless of achievement > and beating up on the "rich" as being undeserved of their wealth. The > phenomena of "grade inflation" is an indicator of this attitude. We've > all heard the phrase, "dumbing down." > > Mati: Ahhh dear Platt there are times I can hear the echoes of my father in > your voice. A wise man, no doubt. :-) > If you want to make collective statement then so can I. If our > society has been become overly "compassionate" to be fair, then I would > suggest that perhaps he collectively have failed care about kids in such a > way that compassion is the only form of hope these kids might have. If kids > have learned that wealth means being rich then where did they learn that. > Remember we as school are reflective of the society needs demands. And if > there is a practice of "grade inflation" then I would suggest a "recession" > in the caring or valuing kids. Do I believe in the need for grade inflation > or dumbing down, absolutely not. But don't start kicking kids that already > down for any number of reasons, that won't get them up (they haven't learned > how that works either). Anyone can be critical but it takes someone special > to make a difference and offer a "Quality" helping hand. Not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting we have to be compassionate because many parent's aren't? Or that being rich is evil? Or the kids themselves aren't responsible for their behavior? > Platt: > A society (culture) that values the individual and supports her effort to > be all she can be is one that fits the MOQ to a T. (IMHO) > > Mati: Bravo, go out and offer some meaningful "Quality" support to that > individual, she needs YOU!!!!! Ok I will dismount the soapbox. My own kids > need help with their homework. Like you, I concentrate my efforts on my own kids, and my grandchildren. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
