Hi Ian For me, I think knowledge requires great concepts/metaphors/language/poetry even metaphysics, the best use of logic/reason/coherence we can muster and a clear connection to our lived experience and the ways we have found to describe this experience.
If any of the best of the above that we currenly have look shaky then that's an opportunity to progress. David M ----- Original Message ----- From: "ian glendinning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Collective knowledge and its social versus intellectualsources > David M, Horse, > > I didn't see exactly which of Horse's words you were interperting > David, but I think this is right. > > Social = accepted on authority of others, by weight of numbers, "power" > etc. > > Intellectual = questioning (and reasoning) before accepting. > > Trouble is questioning always starts and stops with "accepted" bases > of knowledge and reasoning, so the two are never going to be entirely > distinct. Probably the main emphasis - is doubtful until supported by > reason / evidence / proof, on the one hand, vs accepted until > "disproven". The trouble is still the bases for reason and "proof". > Even the faithful (believers in authority) construct rational > (looking) arguments to support their belief. (BTW - that's what leads > me to conclude that our real problem is our "addiction" to that kind > of reasoning, th logical positive meme, but I digress.) > > So, even social knowledge you may question "who, where, when" before > choosing to believe - but that may not be intellectual reasoning. Even > highly complex intellectual reason has some basis, that may not be > amenable to "pure reason" (whatever that is). It's never gonna be > black and white. > > Interesting > Ian > > On 5/13/07, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi Horse >> >> Useful suggestion. When our collective knowledge >> (whether seen as divine in origin, ancestral or mythic in >> origin) is put under questioning and suspicion then we >> have a more deliberate and intellectual approach to >> knowledge. >> >> David M >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Horse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 5:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [MD] (MD] Collective intelligence >> >> >> > Hi Folks >> > >> > Before we get into another pointless political debate about the >> > wonderfulness of the magnificent individual versus the marvelous >> > collective could we try and think about this maybe from a slightly >> > better perspective - i.e. mine! :) >> > >> > The term 'collective intelligence', IMO, is probably a misnomer in >> > terms >> > of the MoQ as it, incorrectly, appears to conjoin social and >> > intellectual patterns. >> > It may be better to think of it as 'collective knowledge' which can >> > then >> > be placed at the social level as patterns that accumulate and persist >> > over time within a social context. >> > All learned behaviours and other forms of knowledge that persist from >> > one generation to the next but are not transmitted by biological means >> > can now be neatly placed in this holder. Anything from how to crack an >> > oyster open to the mangled grunts that constitute primitive language >> > can >> > be included, as can more complex language and whatever other social >> > patterns you choose to include. When this 'collective knowledge' >> > becomes >> > sufficiently ordered and complex emergent patterns will start to appear >> > - for an example think in terms of how a city develops and persists >> > over >> > many decades and even centuries. >> > Awareness and contemplation of these patterns gradually gives rise to >> > ordering and restructuring which leads to intellectual activity and the >> > emergence of the intellectual level. So just as the biological patterns >> > of life are available to the social level, so the developing social >> > patterns of collective knowledge are available to the intellectual >> > level. >> > >> > Any thoughts? >> > >> > >> > Horse >> > >> > >> > moq_discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > >> >> moq_discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
