All and all, after I wrote this, I guess I was
talking about removal. The idea that removing
somebody from their foundation can make them better.
Universities, placement facilities, jail, Amerindian
reservations, cities (in which inhabitants, true
story, that never want to eat a carrot again because
they found out carrots grow in the dirt), yes, the
ivory tower, non-direct experience, non-dq, etc...
Yet, how can large communities directly
experience a sense of connection? The internet
probably does help. Anybody else?
SA
> Krimel, dmb, and Khaled,
>
> This idea of small and large communities is
> interesting especially as larger communities, well,
> become larger and the old social system must evolve
> into laws and extended eyes monitoring situations,
> such as police, legislatures, and judges, etc... In
> large communities we want to live on with our lives
> and make a living, nothing wrong with this. Then
> one
> day I got this job at a facility that closely
> monitors
> children/teenagers, after working there for months I
> slowly realized that many other facilities some even
> more strict such as boot camp, do exist. It was
> similar to when I was younger and lived in the city.
>
> Then as our family slowly moved our way around and
> settled in the country I saw deer and hawks, etc...
> Now these animals didn't surprise me, but the
> realization I had was 'yeah, I guess these animals
> do
> live here, and the woods with all these trees.' I
> mean people are starving in the city, and
> Pennsylvania
> has this overpopulation of deer. So, there are
> these
> bad people, and 'yeah, I guess these people are put
> into placement facilities and eventually may end up
> in
> jail.' But they didn't do it you know. We're the
> bad
> guys. We can help them all we need to do is believe
> them they want to wrong again, and then you say,
> "NO",
> and they yell, scream, swear, and talk about how
> they
> want to physically hurt you - well, I guess I
> shouldn't have said No and let them have an extra
> juice, how uncompassionate of me. Yes, this has
> happened before, and yet, they're not really bad, we
> make them bad, oh, then how did they get sent to
> placement in the first place, well, that's not my
> problem they say, oh, but it is... a judge sent you
> to
> us, etc... In large communities these kinds of
> events
> are sheltered from the larger community. As long as
> it's not in our back yard, right? It's controlled,
> right? We have police to stop these people, right?
> Yes - we need police, judges, prison guards,
> placement
> facility staff, etc..., and "How did this all
> start?",
> as Platt asked.
>
> Geography has much to do with this. Where we are,
> and
> what is happening where we are tunes us into a
> certain
> quality of life. Is the intellect in contact or
> disconnected from the realities of the social order?
>
> Yes, I would say something is a mess here.
>
> woods,
> SA
>
> > dmb says:
> > I'm not so sure that small scale communities enjoy
> > any immunity to violence.
> >
> > If that were true there would be no such thing as
> > domestic violence, crimes
> > of passion, incest and the like. You always hurt
> the
> > one you love and all
> > that. I can see how the larger scale communities
> > that come with civilization
> >
> > would precipitate a need for formal codes and laws
> > but I'm a bit skeptical
> > about the effects of scale on morality per se. Its
> > much broader than that,
> > no? It seems to me that there is an alienating and
> > disturbing effect of
> > large scale, complex societies. There is something
> > stressful about having to
> >
> > manage one's own life in a context that is
> > complicated to the point that
> > nobody understands much beyond their own role as
> > baker, warroir, midwife,
> > Queen or whatever. Seems to me that there is a
> > psychological advantage to
> > living in small groups simply because social
> reality
> > is within the
> > individual's range of comprehension.
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > Humans evolved by living in small groups of about
> > 150. That is how we lived
> > for about a million years. Laws are not needed
> > because there are all kinds
> > of social controls that function in groups of that
> > size. You may get
> > domestic violence but the community knows about
> it.
> > You may have thieves but
> > everyone knows who they are.
> >
> > Civilizations did not cause larger communities,
> > larger communities caused
> > civilizations. Larger communities resulted from
> > technological innovations in
> > agriculture. With larger group sizes the inherited
> > systems of control broke
> > down and other more formal types of control had to
> > be put in place to
> > maintain order.
> >
> > The rest of the stuff you mention specialization,
> > social roles, codes of
> > morality and law, etc. are the product of this
> > change that occurred about
> > 12,000 years ago. This is too short a period to
> have
> > had evolutionary
> > significance.
> >
> > But take your leap into theology for a second. We
> > speak of the evil with
> > reference to specific individuals and events. If
> > evil were not somehow
> > genetically selected against wouldn't you expect
> to
> > see more of it? In fact
> > much of the stress you mention comes from having
> to
> > adapt to an environment
> > that we are not particularly well adapted to.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > moq_discuss mailing list
> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> >
>
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>
>
>
>
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