On wed 20 June 2007 10:27:25 AM SA writes to Marsha:
<snip>
To get stuck on thinking and not realize social
and organic levels, etc... is not helpful too. To
watch and be alert of ones thinking, but to not get
stuck and to not annihilate is to veer away from what
happens and to try the impossible. So, I agree that
thinking is an experience of direct experience. This
has been called by some non-thinking which is
different from not-thinking. I find non-thinking and
not-thinking to be confusing and not very helpful in
trying to get across what's happening. I will refrain
from using these words in comparison for now on. They
do not contrast very well. I hope what I explained
above does a better job at what I'm saying.
burned in the garden area today,
Hi Marsha, SA and all,
I follow the octave Do, Re, Mi_Fa, Sol-La Ti as the
steps of evolution. IMO the terms Earth, Water, Air,
Fire are an indication of evolutionary change.
Do-(Earth, inorganic), Re (Water, life-man), Mi
(Water, life-woman) note half-step, a shock, Fa
(Air, proprietary awareness, consciousness, social),
Sol (Fire, intellect, law-giver) (the shock of Fire
indicates the presence of two forms of evolution
cosmic and conscious, only conscious evolution
continues to la), La (higher social, consciousness,
proprietary awareness) Ti, (higher intellectual). The
last two steps are generically called enlightenment.
If the octave restarts on the next Do, I don’t have any
sense to what one is referring, since no further shock
to make the interval to the new octave exists, except
a new creation. IMO Evolution is law conformable.
Non thinking is an environment for the proprietary awareness
level, consciousness, where to allow static patterns to occur
interferes with the flow determining just how empty I am.
I don’t like the term mind, since it has too much garbage
attached to it.
Not thinking in an intellectual environment denies the value of law.
I decide only on whimsy. Micah sees not thinking as the only
way of knowledge. IMO he denies the intellectual level of law,
and all further levels.
IMO Pirsig was attached to India for Earth Water, Air, Fire.
The static social environment based on the four elements
turned him off.
Joe
[Marsha]
> I don't understand your non-thinking versus not
> thinking. Thinking is experience too, is it not?
Do you think
> thinking is a poor substitute to direct experience?
Isn't thinking
> just another form of direct experience? What do you
think?
I agree, thinking is another form of direct
experience, and I like it. Huineng, the 6th
patriarch, would say getting rid of thoughts is to
lose ones way into what Zen is.
This is from the 'The Treasure of the Law' the
sutra by Huineng, the 6th patriarch, as follows:
"Learned Audience, when you hear me talk about
the void, do not at once fall into the idea of
vacuity, (because this involves the heresy of the
doctrine of annihilation)."
Huineng discusses a Void/Nothingness that is
grounded and involves content - not annihilation.
He is another quote from the same sutra as
follows:
"Learned Audience, what the ignorant merely talk
about, wise men put into actual practice with their
mind. There is also a class of foolish people who sit
quietly and try to keep their mind blank. They refrain
from thinking of anything and call themselves 'great'.
On account of their heretical view we can hardly talk
to them."
To get stuck on thinking and not realize social
and organic levels, etc... is not helpful too. To
watch and be alert of ones thinking, but to not get
stuck and to not annihilate is to veer away from what
happens and to try the impossible. So, I agree that
thinking is an experience of direct experience. This
has been called by some non-thinking which is
different from not-thinking. I find non-thinking and
not-thinking to be confusing and not very helpful in
trying to get across what's happening. I will refrain
from using these words in comparison for now on. They
do not contrast very well. I hope what I explained
above does a better job at what I'm saying.
burned in the garden area today,
SA
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