Mf'ers
DMB
> Dave, were you talking to me? It seemed like you were, but you didn't say.
3WD
Over the last few months I've tried to steer away from responding to posters on a line
by line, post
by post basis. Many times it just degenerates into namecalling, as our past screaming
matches
illustrated, at least to me, that this approach, while possibly entertaining for the
onlookers, is
most often futile in advancing the understanding of anything except the perverse
nature of people.
My "slaying giants" post way directed at an underlying grumble I've sensed in both
forums from a
significant number of people who seem to fall into the group Pirsig identifies this
way:
" Sometimes people think there are some evil individual "men" somewhere who are
exploiting them,
some secret cabal of capitalists, or "400" or "Wall Street bankers," or WASPs or name
-any- [ Giant
of your dreams] that gets together periodically and has secret conferences on how to
exploit them
personally." (Lila p 217)
Rants like your, "..there's just no excuse for corporate whores." suggest to me that
your patterns
of value may have a lot in common with this group. Don't get me wrong even Pirsig in
the next line
after this quote admits, " It get confusing,..." and on the preceding page " It was
spooky how well
it [ any Giant] all worked with an intelligence of it own that was way beyond the
intelligence of
any person." Thus my introduction of the "flight or fight" scenario. (Based on the
Catastrophe
Theory of Rene' Thom as presented in a work by Charles Jencks). I'm quite sure that
any good book
on animal behavior covers similar ground, but in the end after " It seemed like he'd
been running
all his life." (Lila p 219) Pirsig came to these conclusions.
" He was as much a part of the Giant as anyone else." (Lila p 219)
and so are you, and I, and everybody else on this planet. So when you conclude that
"but the
pursuit of truth has to take place outside of [the Giant's} clutches." I believe you
are deluding
yourself . Both Zen and Pirsig's tales suggest that one must seek enlightenment
while attending
to, and engaged in the larger patterns of the Giant. Not necessarily because of any
moral imperative
just that the only alternatives, as I stated before, are lunacy, mysticism, and one
other I missed
before, death. I'm not personally interested in experiencing 1 or 3 and while in
recent months
I've come to accept the possibility of your favorite , mysticism, practically and
pragmatically its
adoption as a world view for any significant group of mankind is at best a ravingly
optimistic long
term goal (maybe 100s, or 1000s, or 100's of thousands years). And because we know so
little about
mysticism, saying what effect its adoption would have on our relationships with the
giant patterns
of social and intellectual values is so far beyond speculation as to proposed adopting
a science
fiction novel as a practical guide to boiling potatoes.
So Pirsig after years of experience and thought on the matter found.........
"In recent years... he could feel his fear of this old monster lessening, and a kind
of familiar
affection for it growing." (Lila 219)
and the reason he stopped running as I originally posted was,
"Once you understand something well enough, you don't need to run from it." (Lila p
219)
He then packaged up his insights in two books published 20 years apart in the hopes
that maybe he
might help someone else save a few steps. But many just keep on running into the sun
clutched in
fear of their own shadow.
3WD
PS: Mangus thanks for not bouncing DMB's post for the word "drivel" in as much he was
kind enough
to provide us an ample definition of the word in the following:
> And while we're in a gaming mood, may I offer a contest? Its called "Who
> wants to be most relevant?" You don't have to do anything except post
> normally. But remember you're trying to impress the audience with your
> ability to remain on topic and answer the question of the month. Show 'em
> how smart and intellectually disciplined you are and you'll take home the
> big prize! I'll take it upon my self to rate each post on a ten point scale,
> with ten being a perfect score. Mom always wanted me to be a game show
> host..
What? And evolve into a dynamic "for profit" corporate whore, as opposed to working
the cribs as a
"not for profit" corporate whore? How disgusting!
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