Hey Mark and all, In response to Mark's request for textual context, I would offer the following....
PIRSIG (SODV--- discussing his MoQ diagram): "In the third box are the biological patterns: senses of touch, sight hearing, smell and taste. The Metaphysics of Quality follows the empirical tradition here in saying that the senses are the starting point of reality, but -- all importantly -- it includes a sense of value. Values are phenomena. To ignore them is to misread the world. It says this sense of value, of liking or disliking, is a primary sense that is a kind of gatekeeper for everything else an infant learns. At birth this sense of value is extremely Dynamic but as the infant grows up this sense of value becomes more and more influenced by accumulated static patterns. In the past this biological sense of value has been called the "subjective" because there values cannot be located in an external physical object. But quantum theory has destroyed the idea that only properties located in external physical objects have reality." R This quote is typical of a thread that runs throughout out Pirsig's thoughts in LILA and on the MoQ in general. Pirsig often makes reference to a 'sense of betterness' (like with the Brujo) or a 'sense of quality' (like with Lila). Now, I am not qualified to pronounce on whether quantum theory has destroyed the idea that only properties located in external physical objects have reality, but my own 'sense of quality' tells me that there is something weird about the idea presented above. Unfortunately, I'm a little pressed for time tonight, but on Saturday I will send a post detailing my problems with the above. take care rick Thank you Rick, This makes your original question more clear to me. May i draw your attention to diagram 2 in The edge of Chaos (TEOC) please? There, you will see the event stream, or DQ, radiating a coherent 'cloud' of static patterns. The first patterns in the stream are Intellectual patterns - and this is intended to indicate that the whole MoQ is an intellectual description of value. (Quantum theory is an abstract intellectual description of reality.) Coherence is exceptionally important here, because coherence is the pre-intellectual harmony of artistic and creative expression - even Quantum theory must have its elegant aspect, or it would be viewed as unworthy. But these intellectual patterns have evolved in a relationship with intellectually postulated lower levels of value - and our empirical apparatus is postulated as being rooted at these lower levels. Now it may be interesting to note that Buddhists view Humans as having 6 senses; the 6th being what we in the West would, in the 21st century, rather confusingly determine, 'Mind.' But the diagram 2 in TEOC aims to show that there is no mind as such, or indeed Subjects and Objects in the MoQ, rather, there are evolutionary related patterns of Quality emerging from nothingness, in a coherent move towards nothingness. (Artistic creativity in all Human fields of activity - biological, social and intellectual abandons a sense of self.) My suggestion is that we abandon out Western cultural baggage and embrace a new and better description of experience. Perhaps your sense of 'weirdness' is a helpful sign that you are freeing yourself from old modes of thought? I do hope so? All the best, Mark MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_focus/ MF Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from moq_focus follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/mf/subscribe.html
