Amy and everyone else... I respect different points of view... But our philosophy of teaching and learning cannot be dismissed as less important than science. If there is one thing I learned completing my own research, and by reading reams of studies, is that a researcher's assumptions about what reading is colors how they conduct research and how they measure results and even how they report it.
I've read the research you quote and believe me, their philosophy about what reading is colors everything. That doesn't invalidate it... but does color how I interpret it. I also have spent more than 20 years teaching struggling readers how to read. Don't forget, I actually like Fundations for some children. It is more efficient for many readers to take the path toward breaking the code that you describe. BUT...I have also seen students who continued to struggle, that Fundations and Wilson FAILED to reach because the child needed those meaning cues to understand why they were decoding. The human brain is varied... Different. How could there be one right way? Research tells us much that we must attend to. But we must be critical consumers of it. Context... Which includes the researchers beliefs...matters. Philosophy is everything Amy. It matters. Don't dismiss it. Your philosophy colors what research you read and how you interpret it along with your interpretations of the research behind Words Their Way... Which is also steeped in a philosophy, that just happens to clash with yours. Lets keep this discussion civil please. Our field has been deeply injured by polarizing philosophies. We lose ... We all lose...Including our kids...when we fail to listen and learn from each other. Jennifer Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at 11:51 PM, "Amy McGovern" <[email protected]> wrote: > Again, I fully agree that reading is about making meaning. My perspective is > from the K-2 at-risk early reader and the struggling older reader. It was > not my intention to offend anyone on this listserve and I don't appreciate > being called names for presenting another viewpoint with sources to refer to. > I like many of the ideas that come up here on Mosaic of Thought..If I > didn't, I wouldn't keep reading. All I'm saying is that we need to be > careful of dismissing the importance of accurate decoding and it's deep > relationship and connection to language development and comprehension. > > I believe it was Torgenson who said that there is no reading strategy in the > world that will compensate for the inability to read the word. We need > both--strong phonics/ decoding at K-2 + rich language experiences full of > read alouds, small group customized instruction, and lots of chances to talk > about books and explore language. > > Amy > > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 20:16:18 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] DIBELS >> >> In my opinion, and from my experience, the worst thing to come across >> the pike in education and the teaching of reading is the "systematic >> and explicit phonics instruction" kool-aid. I have observed children, >> in general, come to see reading more and more as a chore and less and >> less as pleasure in the last decade. It's very sad and, worse, >> dangerous. >> >> To say that "going right to meaning first, relying on picture cues, >> telling the student to look at the first letter and think about what >> makes sense are all ineffective strategies" is just blatantly, >> condescendingly false. I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with >> philosophy and everything to do with what reading actually is, which >> is understanding ideas, gathering information, and bringing one's self >> to the text. >> >> This is the MOSAIC list, based on "Mosaic of Thought." As I understand >> it, the purpose of this list is to discuss the concepts and strategies >> presented in "Mosaic of Thought" .... not to undermine those concepts >> and strategies with a lot of gobbledygook blather about systematic and >> explic phonics first instruction. >> >> It's ALL about meaning. If it isn't about meaning, then it's pretty >> worthless. >> >> My two cents. >> >> Renee >> >> >> On May 2, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Amy McGovern wrote: >> >>> Hi Jennifer, >>> What I mean by my comment Jennifer is that rather than going to >>> meaning first, we work on learning to decode the patterns of the >>> English language using Fundations as a source for systematic and >>> explict phonics instruction. The phonics lesson is linked to a >>> decodable text. The goal is to always read for meaning. If one >>> cannot decode the text accurately then reading progress is stilted, >>> to say the least. I agree fully that meaning making and word study >>> are linked. English is a morpho-phonemic language. >>> The students in Fundations have the opportunity to practice a >>> phonics skill in isolation, then apply the skill in text within the >>> 20 to 30 minute lesson. >>> >>> If the the child comes to word they are unsure of, the prompt is: >>> look through the word. Sound it out. Does it make sense? >>> >>> This is not philosophy. It's the science of reading. Going right >>> to meaning first, relying on picture cues, telling the student to >>> look at the first letter and think about what makes sense are all >>> ineffective strategies for at risk readers. Furthermore, The >>> research on systematic and explicit phonics instruction is solid. >>> It is impossible to be systematic if the teacher is only focusing on >>> what the child is struggling with rather than following a logical >>> sequence that promotes generalizations and empowers both decoding >>> and comprehension. The three cueing system is broken and not >>> supported by the science of reading. Check out Speech to Print by >>> Louisa Moats or Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz if you need >>> more proof. >>> >>> We know more about struggling readers than we've ever known before. >>> I HIGHLY recommend that you look into LETRS training: Language >>> Essentials for Teachers of Reading and Spelling. Excellent >>> stuff...not based on any programs either. With all due respect, I'm >>> done with philosophy Jennifer. Quite frankly, we all should be. >>> This is not about what you or I believe. We have too many failing >>> students to hang our hat on old strategies that don't work for the >>> most at-risk students. Fundations works. My teachers are all >>> balanced lit teachers and they are seeing huge gains in their >>> students~well beyond what we ever got with Words Their Way and >>> classic Guided Reading alone. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Amy >>> >>> >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 21:50:01 +0000 >>>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] DIBELS >>>> >>>> Amy...we've had this discussion before. I respect your philosophy >>>> of reading but it's different from mine. >>>> You can't teach word study separate from meaning in my philosophy >>>> of reading. Where we can meet in the middle is by saying Fundations >>>> does not stand alone. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 1, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Amy McGovern" >>>> <[email protected] >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Fundations is not intended to teach meaning cues. It is a word >>>>> study program that links encoding and decoding. It is designed to >>>>> supplement core instruction. It does not stand alone. >>>>> >>>>> I have five teachers using it this year k-2. Our core is balanced >>>>> lit. All of them really like it. They are seeing growth with their >>>>> lowest students for whom we need to solidify these foundational >>>>> skills. >>>>> >>>>> Foundations is effective. Again, it is supplemental systematic and >>>>> explicit word study instruction. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Amy >>>>> Reading Specialist >>>>> >>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 00:44:07 +0000 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] DIBELS >>>>>> >>>>>> Teri >>>>>> Briefly, I think Fundations has some good components. I love the >>>>>> letter-keyword-sound. It appears to work very well to help >>>>>> students develop letter sound relationships in Kindergarten. >>>>>> Tapping out sounds seems to help some kids learn to blend. >>>>>> HOWEVER, It brings phonemic awareness in too late, in my opinion >>>>>> and I encourage my teachers to start PA activities earlier. I >>>>>> also think it moves WAY to slow in first grade and up. I would >>>>>> recommend for Kindergarten, and only with modifications in grades >>>>>> one and up. The reason for not recommending it in first grade and >>>>>> up is because it does NOT include instruction in cross-checking >>>>>> with meaning cues in decoding nor does it help kids use syntax. >>>>>> It focuses very heavily on visual cue systems which bothers me. I >>>>>> am too deeply entrenched in the research of Marie Clay to advise >>>>>> you to use Fundations completely as written, even in K. >>>>>> Nonetheless... if you use some components carefully in K... it >>>>>> has had some good results in my schools. (one Title 1, the other >>>>>> not). If you want more detail, let's take this off list. >>>>>> I don't want to get the list sidetracked... >>>>>> >>>>>> Jennifer L. Palmer, Ed. D. >>>>>> >>>>>> Instructional Facilitator >>>>>> >>>>>> National Board Certified Teacher >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Magnolia Elementary (home school) >>>>>> >>>>>> 901 Trimble Road >>>>>> >>>>>> Joppa, MD 21085 >>>>>> >>>>>> 410-612-1553 >>>>>> >>>>>> Fax 410-612-1576 >>>>>> >>>>>> "Reaching, Teaching, Learning, Changing Lives!!" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Norrisville Elementary >>>>>> >>>>>> 5302 Norrisville Road >>>>>> >>>>>> White Hall, MD 21161 >>>>>> >>>>>> 410-692-7810 >>>>>> >>>>>> Fax 410-692-7812 >>>>>> >>>>>> Where Bright Futures Begin!! >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: Mosaic [[email protected]] on behalf of >>>>>> Adams Teri [[email protected]] >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 11:59 AM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] DIBELS >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry that this is off topic....I am curious if anyone is using >>>>>> FUNDATIONS programs for word work?? We have one school using it >>>>>> in the area but am looking for a broader perspective? Thanks for >>>>>> any pros/cons you can provide. >>>>>> >>>>>> Together in education, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Teri Adams >>>>>> Cody's Reading Specialist >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> 563-332-0210 >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Mosaic >>>>>> [mailto:[email protected] >>>>>> ] On Behalf Of LINDA CASTALDO >>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 5:59 PM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: [MOSAIC] DIBELS >>>>>> Importance: High >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not familiar with DIBELS Next but I am not a fan of DIBELs >>>>>> Sixth Edition in Second and Third Grades. I like DRA better >>>>>> because it tests oral and silent reading plus it tests reading >>>>>> comprehension. It is more time consuming to have students >>>>>> complete the DRA but overall it lets one see which skills they >>>>>> need more help with. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lin >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Lin Castaldo, MA. EdTitle One >>>>>> TeacherLinden School Six 19 East Morris AvenueLinden, New Jersey >>>>>> 07036Email: >>>>>> [email protected]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A >>>>>> teacher affects eternity; he can never tell where his influence >>>>>> stops. ~Henry Brooks Adams >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Mosaic mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >>>>>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Mosaic mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >>>>>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Mosaic mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >>>>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org >>>>> >>>>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mosaic mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >>>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org >>>> >>>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mosaic mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ >>> mosaic_literacyworkshop.org >>> >>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mosaic mailing list >> [email protected] >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive > > _______________________________________________ > Mosaic mailing list > [email protected] > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive > _______________________________________________ Mosaic mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive
