Chris, Thanks much for the taking the time and effort to stand up for ebird. I'm sure it's as great as you say and it is much appreciated. At some point, I will take the time to get re-acquainted with it, since it apparently will inevitably engulf all other birding databases, kinda like The Borg...(old Star-Trek Next Generation reference for those wondering)
Yes, I'm resistant to technological change, especially the insane rate of change of the last 10 years, but I am far from anti-technology. Ebird probably unfairly got the brunt of my frustration with that issue, but I did have 2 bad experiences with it and it's just that I want to use technology and not let it use me. I am tired of just figuring out how to use one technology and getting comfortable with it and by then it's obsolete and I *must* learn to use another. I have other hobbies besides taking the time and effort to learn how to use software and complex machines I will throw away or need to replace in a year or two but I will say that I always had my clocks set correctly on my VCRs (I'm sure many of you "old-timers" remember what they are). This desire to "keep it simple" is nowhere more true than when I want to enjoy the birds and nature. Very good to know ebird sitings get vetted. Several others have commented backchannel that they received inquiries as to the veracity of their data. The reason for my original comment was that in the rather brief time I was on there, I saw a report that looked questionable to me and it made me wonder. I also saw the names of many people I'd never heard of before. Now I am pretty friendly when I'm out birding (alone or with a group) and I know a fair number of birders in the metro area (several dozen by name and more by face). It seems there are at least two (or perhaps 3 or 4) worlds of birders out there that rarely intersect any more. Ah, the wonders of technology. As I said, my recent grand total time spent on ebird was about 30 minutes several months ago. I don't recall seeing tutorials at that time (none that helped anyways), but with my level of general computer and software/hardware experience, not being able to make sense of it in that time was just too frustrating to be worth continuing. I know software is designed by different people and for different people. I personally found ebird far from user-friendly and others have commented the same to me backchannel. Chris, your persuasive and enthusiastic "sell" of it may cause me to give it another try. Thanks! Good birding! PS: perhaps this should be the last post on this topic. It got off the mark from Al Schirmacher's original post intent (I think) and may be too far off topic(??) Sorry, Al!! I will be glad to field other responses backchannel. -- Sincerely, Jim Ryan Saint Paul's Westside ---- One of the first conditions of happiness is that the link between Man and Nature shall not be broken. -* Leo Tolstoy* A well governed appetite is the greater part of liberty. - *Lucius Annaeus Seneca* ---- On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 3:15 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > A little disturbing the negativity in this email but i'll try to address > all of it. Keep in mind I just started using Ebird regularly a little over > a year ago when they went global. Before that I wasn't that interested > because I couldn't pull in all of my sightings from around the world. So > it's not like i've been using this since it started and am hyping it > because of some emotional attachment from the start. I wasn't an early > adopter either. > > > 1) I personally think Ebird is pretty self explanatory. Submit > Observations goes to a page that guides you through submitting sightings, > Explore data allows you to find all sorts of useful data, and My Ebird is > your own personal observation data. In a matter of seconds, I went to > Explore Data->Bar Charts and selected Minnesota and picked a few hotspots > (Murphy-Hanrehan) and was presented with a bar chart that showed species > distribution for every bird ever reported in Murphy Hanrehan..how is that > not useful? And looking at some of the things I remember about the park, > it's spot on. Palm, Yellow, and Yellow-rumped warblers arrive first, then > Nashville, and then the rest...Hoodeds over-summer (because they breed) > along with Yellow, American Redstart and a few others...Dickcissels show up > in very late May and only are seen through June. The park is completely > unbirded in Dec/January... All this from a bar chart that took me less > than a minute to create. Some other cool things on the Explore data page > includes customizable alerts (which can be just looked at on ebird, or even > customized to send you email). Examples would be an alert to inform you > whenever a bird is reported on ebird that you have not seen in the state > (State birds), or an alert to inform you when a bird you have not seen that > year is reported in the state (Year bird), or even when a bird you haven't > seen in a specific county is reported (county bird). It's also a great way > to look at what is currently being seen in a location you plan to go > birding at. I'd go to Ebird before i'd ever go to a listserv to find out > information about recent sightings, especially in states where it is > extremely widely used (Arizona, most of the NE, California, Florida, Texas) > as I can get up to the minute information about what is being seen where in > a few clicks, from a much larger set of people than generally posts > sightings on a listserv. > > > There is plenty of stuff on ebird to help out even the most novice of > users: > > > http://ebird.org/content/ebird/about/ebird-quick-start-guide -- Ebird > quick start guide > > http://ebird.org/content/ebird/about/tutorial -- Tutorial on how to get > started > > http://ebird.org/content/ebird/about/using-the-ebird-data-import-tool > -- Tutorial for uploading existing data into ebird > > http://ebird.org/content/ebird/about/faq -- FAQ for often asked questions > > > 3) Reliability.. Keep in mind, the same people that report to listserves > report to Ebird, just fewer of them for some states unfortunately. However > for every state there is at least one, and generally multiple Ebird > reviewers who review any flagged sightings. Sightings are flagged based on > a number of custom defined filters that are as good as the people who do > the ebird work for the area. For example, in the fall in Kansas there are > filters to flag any Meadowlark sightings of any number beyond just a few > because without calling, it is nigh impossible to identify meadowlarks in > Kansas to species given how much range overlap there is with Western and > Eastern. Too many people were just blanket reporting eastern meadowlarks > when that was probably inaccurate, so a filter was created. Filters are > also used to build checklists for locations where you submit sightings > for. If you try to submit a checklist for Minnesota in January, there > aren't going to be warblers on that checklist, thus they don't show up on > the checklist you are presented to fill in. There is a lot more > information here: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/about/ebird-data-quality > > I found after importing my entire database of sightings that I actually > had several sightings in my own personal birder's diary database from back > in 2001-2003 when I was just starting birding that were just plain > incorrect identifications. An Ebird reviewer gently guided me to what the > likely correct bird was, and it was nice to get my personal database > cleaned up. Personally I think the attacks people make on ebird and it's > "reliability" are pretty out of touch. There are a lot of Ebird reviewers > that spend an awful lot of time making sure the data is as valuable and as > useful as it possibly can be. I've found much of it to be spot on, and > when a questionable sighting gets reported, it gets flagged, reviewed and > vetted by ebird reviewers and if it is determined to be an incorrect > sighting, it doesn't get confirmed. It remains in your database, but it > does not show up on public searched henceforth. Ebird also allows to > attach images to sightings now, which ups the bar even more when it comes > to reporting rarities. Someone last week reported a Black Vulture in north > central KS which is quite rare for that area, and although he's a pretty > good birder and would have been believed anyways, he took a few pictures > and attached them to the ebird report, and with that there was absolutely > no doubt of the identification. > > > Like Larry Silvio stated, for those that have smart phones (if you don't > you should, they are worth it for birding alone! Two field guides and all > the bird songs for the country all on my phone..don't even need to carry > Sibleys anymore, it's on my phone!), there are apps that allow you to > submit ebird sightings through your phone while in the field, there is an > app that allows you to query what has recently been seen in your area, > notables in your area, rarities in your area or nationally, etc. > > > In my opinion birding will continue to be benefited and moved forward by > ebird. The more people contribute, the better it gets. > > > Cheers, > > Chris Fagyal > > > On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 13:38:01 -0500, Jim Ryan <[email protected]> wrote: > > I tried to use ebird years ago (circa 2004) and it was horrible. I gave up. > > I heard now it's better so I went back late last year. After farting > around on it for about half an hour, I still think it sucks. > > I use computers everyday for work and have done so since 1995 (back in the > day of Windows 3.1) but I still can't figure out how to pull up anything > I'd consider useful from ebird. Maybe it's my left-handed but logical brain > but I must need to be led by the hand through the wonderland that is ebird > 'cuz I ain't finding it on my own. > > Reliability is a whole 'nother factor - If I have no clue who a birder is, > or what their ID skill level is, I ain't going chasing after their > mis-identification. Does ebird have any sort of verification process for > the validity of their "scientific database" ??? There, I said it. > > I already get good info from the MOUMN.org website and mostly reliable > info from the MOU and MNBird list servs. And oddly, sometimes it's just > fun to try your luck on your own. > > I know I must be a luddite, as my cell phone is still dumb and I'm not a > twit (don't tweet). My Face is not in a book that's not made of paper > either and I email far more than I text (OMG, LOL). But apparently society > marches on to it's cyber drummer with me in it's virtual dust. > > -- > Sincerely, > > Jim Ryan > Saint Paul's Westside > ---- > One of the first conditions of happiness is that the link between Man and > Nature shall not be broken. -* Leo Tolstoy* > > A well governed appetite is the greater part of liberty. - *Lucius > Annaeus Seneca* > ---- > > ---- Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
