Neal Blanchett wrote: >>Otherwise, let's wait for the facts, see if these police applied MPD procedures >correctly, and discuss whether or not we need to change those procedures. The >investigative report will probably do these things (although it will disappoint those >of you who have already written your own conclusion that police are bad and Chief Olson should be fired.)Let's not discuss some fantasy world where police run from danger and the city magically remains a safe place, or where police have to try to disarm machete-wielding non-responsive individuals by all possible means before using their firearms.<<<
How about discussing the fantasy world where people actually can trust that all measures will be taken before deadly force is used? We've had lots of discussion and a nice mishmashing of the facts, which are still coming in. A number of people in support of the officers' action assert or create hypothetical situations of a swinging machete wielding madman, yet one of the eye witnesses interviewed for the Strib says that the machete was by his side and wasn't threatening anyone. We've had a lot of people saying it had nothing to do with racism and raising this only clouds the issue, but there have been an overwhelming number of shootings involving unarmed or non-ballistically armed individuals shot to death in seemingly unthreatening situations. Now this incident may or may not have a basis in race, barring one of the officer's confessing to this in a Perry Masonesque conclusion, we'll never know for certain. But it has the appearance of racism, and that makes it important enough to be raised. It has to be raised, because the concern from people of color being unaddressed leaves us with a feeling of a lack of safety. It has lessened some in the past 35 years, but even into the mid-sixties it was still common practice for killings to take place and even if an officer wasn't involved there was little or no redress by the police. It is part of historical memory, and the dynamic still exists. The issue has to be dealt with because it does affect people's confidence in the police and in their own safety. This is why the Somali community has made the statement of feeling unsafe. As we try to put ourselves in the officers shoes, try putting yourself in the Somali community or other persons of color's shoes and see how this looks. Still think it's over the top? Can you tell me the last White person shot 16-41 times for carrying a non-ballistic weapon or (God forbid) a wallet? I honestly don't know of any. As for what TJ said, I've never heard of the killing of a gang by one member of a rival gang as being chalked up to racism or oppression. Perhaps you can provide a non-hypothetical example of this? Moving past race to just procedure and this fantastical assertion of wildly crazy people with machetes who are much more dangerous, capable, stronger, etc. than the police, I would ask if anyone has actually faced these types of situations or worked with the mentally ill. I have on both. I've got a degree in Psychology and worked for a psychiatric hospital for 4 years. We received a week's worth of training of how to talk down and/or take down a mentally ill person, with or without weapons. I've had to do it, both by myself and with 2-3 other people, and with the person everything from unarmed to holding knives, broken bottles, etc. It is possible, but more importantly, it's part of the job. You take the job understanding the risks and first and foremost, it's to not try and harm the individual. Incidently, if you call animal control because you have a wild animal in your yard (say a wolf or bear for example) they come out with tranquilizer guns and those cable loops on the end of long poles. Is it too much to hope that people would get at least this treatment? Now, I wasn't there, and I definitely don't think all our officers are evil. I ran into one of our SAFE officers in the bookstore Monday, he's a great guy and I trust his judgement. But something didn't go right in this situation, which at very least is a huge mistake and very very poor judgement. My assessment is based upon general knowledge of dynamics and past experience. And whether you support the officers or not, there are a lot of unanswered questions. It's been reported that he didn't understand English and that officers refused to accept translation help from Somali bystanders. Why? Leaving aside the unknowable "could they have shot the arm or leg" (which does stop someone by the way, whether you hit bone or not because of the intensity of the pain), when you have six people, why can you not surround him, and when he moves towards the front, the ones from the back grab him? Remember I have done this before. And if the man is moving that fast to get to one of the officers, why not move behind the squad car? Remember all those games of being chased where you used the car to keep the person from getting you? More to the point, if I with a weeks worth of training can take down someone brandishing a weapon, can't our officers do the same? If not, why have they not been trained to? I thought they were. This incident is alleged to have taken place in 10-15 minutes, why weren't tasers tried a few more times, tranquilizer darts or just some cooling down time? Again, I wasn't there, but I know that I would have risked injury, especially if I had a billy club, body armor, police training, and could save a life. Maybe there are answers to these questions, and if they are adequate, I could support saying this was just an unfortunate incident, however all I've heard is "support your local police" and exaggerated hypotheticals of the situation. I do support our police, and respect them for the job they do. While it is a choice, it's also a brave one. But the added risk besides the obvious, to this or any other public position is that you must be responsible for you actions. Responsible meaning "able to respond". When an incident like this arises that raises so may questions, you have to be able respond, and if necessary, accept the consequences for your actions. It sucks, but it's part of the risk and responsibility, especially when you've been given a weapon and the authority to take measures beyond individual rights. I don't want to see us rail against the entire police force, and I do want to see the FACTS come out, all of them. But most of all I want to not have to worry about being pulled over, harassed, or killed because of my skin color, and the only way that's going to come about is by actually addressing these situations both as they arise, and at their cores to bring about systemic change that will allow everyone to feel safe. Jonathan Palmer (who witnessed first hand the unjustified actions of police pre-emptively cordoning off college campuses and shooting tear gas into dorms during the aftermath of the Rodney King trial "just in case", and would rather not see the same fallout happen again) Stevens Square-Loring Heights _______________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
