So, Eva, asking questions and ascertaining veracity is now the same as 
discrediting? You may want to read both my post and Mark's response a bit more 
closely, especially since Mark responded that the links I posted was pretty much 
what he had read and that it was admittedly pretty slim.  Having read 
essentially the same pieces, we diverge on two points: Mark thinks the links are 
enough 
to make the claim and I disagree also on whether the FOP in Dayton 
definitively represents the street cops.  Given the relationship and reputation of the 
Federation here, I would argue that they don't but rather the feelings of a 
small group both on the street and in positions of power.  You call it attempted 
discrediting, I call it validating.  It's awfully dangerous just to believe 
things one hears without asking questions.

And I think both you and Mark are forgetting his 26+ year history in DC where 
he did a lot of work and made a lot of changes when you mention only Dayton 
in talking about his experience.  All flash and no substance?  Allow me to 
illustrate the "lack of substance":
-  Rose in rank in DC from offiver to Deputy Chief
-  12 percent drop in violent crime and an 8 percent drop in property crime 
during the first 18 
  months he was chief in Dayton.
-  completely restructured how policing was done in a department that has 
about 600 
   officers and civilian employees. 
- instituted a proactive community policing philosophy.
-  changed his command staff, hired two high-ranking black officers.
-   created policies banning racial profiling and police pursuits.
 - Direct oversight of 1,200 sworn members in DC.
 - Managed regional operating budget of more than $77 million (DC).
 - Member of negotiating team for 2001 FOP labor union contract in 
Washington, D.C.
 - Played key leadership role in planning and directing successful operations
   during three days of unrest and mass demonstration during World Bank
   and Monetary Fund Conference in 2000.
 - Reduced homicides by 10 percent in Central Region in 1999 using
   focused law enforcement and problem-solving strategies.
 - Directed continuing, significant crime reduction in three police districts 
he
    commanded.
 - Conceptualized and directed the Department's Anti-Prostitution Task 
   Force and nearly eliminated the District's entrenched prostitution markets.
 - Increased morale by elimination double-standard discipline in Dayton.
 - Serves as Dayton department's liaison to gay and lesbian community.
 - Implemented staffing changes designed to put more officers on the street
   during high crime hours in Dayton.
-  reduced police shootings by 70 percent in 1999 and 2000 "through training 
and policy
   changes.
-  credited with raising residents' level of confidence in police and 
reducing complaints  
   against officers by installing video cameras in squad cars in Dayton.
-  The No Confidence vote was for putting restrictions on the use of deadly 
force and police 
    chases, how can you realistically argue against that?

So when you say all flash and no substance and that he hadn't stayed in 
Dayton long enough to follow through on his "ambitious reforms", which definition 
of the words substance and follow through are you using, because it looks to me 
(and to the selection committee, Mayor, 6 council members and a host of 
community groups that he is about substance and follow through.

Or perhaps this is kind of like Vinzinni's "inconceivable" from the Princess 
Bride....

Jonathan Palmer
Victory

"You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means."
-Inego Montoya
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