This is not an either/or issue. Is the overall quality of education adversely affected in a major way by BOTH an increasingly inequitable economic system and an understandably selfish but still covertly (and overtly) racist jiggering of the education bureaucracy by well-to-do, enclave-oriented MPS parents? Absolutely. There is one more thing I want to add that may or may not be within the scope of this list. Just as Mr. Atherton correctly warns us not to place too much stock in individual success stories that obscure the more general failures when it comes to pupil achievement, I would ask him to cite urban school systems that have effectively achieved the kind of broad-based reforms he clamors for, to the point of producing quantifiable, broad-based success for the vast majority of its students. This will either provide us with examples that MPS might emulate, or expose the possibility that the gross economic inequities that Mr. Atherton blithely assumes will always be with us are in fact part of an intractable problem when it comes to creating system-wide achievement in schools disproportionately comprised of poor and/or non-white students. I'm really not trying to start an argument here; just attempting to stimulate some debate.
Britt Robson Lyndale With an 18-year old son enrolled in MPS special education and "mainstream" classes since the age of 3. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Atherton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 7:33 AM Subject: RE: [Mpls] Doug Grow's Mythology > > Steve Cross wrote: > > > If it is a societal problem, then expecting the schools to > > solve the problem is going to be impossible for them. Society > > has to fix the problem. Once it does, then the dropout rate > > will go down even if nothing in the schools have changed. > > There are a number of problems with this argument. > > 1) Even if it is a societal problem, if we place > responsibility for the solution on the society, > we might as well resign ourselves to accepting a > graduation rate of 51%, because we won't see any > reform in our lifetimes (we will not be > eliminating poverty in the foreseeable future). > > 2) There's no need to attribute responsibility > to society as long as the public schools fail to > make reforms that we know to be effective. Just to > cite a few: > a) Nothing has been done about the problem of there > being a disproportionate number of inexperienced teachers > in minority schools. A problem that everyone acknowledges > is a contributing factor to the poor performance of > minority students. > b) The MPS still practice social promotion; an educational > policy that is now being reconsidered all over the country. > c) The MPS lack a comprehensive parent involvement > program. A factor that has been shown to significantly > improve student acheivement. > d) The MPS whole lacks adequate comprehensive vocational > programs. > > > I think that most people could make a rational conclusion > > once they consider what the makeup of those dropouts are and what > > else is going on in our society that might cause them to > > think that it is pointless to get a good basic education. > > I assume that you are implying that if the dropouts are > mostly poor Blacks then that absolves the schools of > responsibility. I would argue that it simply implies that > the schools have not provided programs that are effective > for minority youth. Which of our arguments is more accurate could > be determined by actually implementing the reforms I've cited > above and observing their effects. Failure to implement > them places responsibility for the dropout rate on the schools > themselves, not on the society. > > Keep in mind that the MPS have one of the largest achievement > gaps in the country and this isn't due solely to the proportion of > poor minority students. There are other places in the country > that are doing better. In fact, there's one just down the river. > http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/100_largest/Table16_2.asp > If you access this webpage, try comparing Cincinnati (which is > 57% Black) to Minneapolis (which is 31% Black). Not that these are > definitive statistics, but they do indicate a need to analyze the > reason for the differences. > > > We have a lot to do. But it may still be a lot to do with > > transforming our society and not just transforming its educational > > system. > > Or it may not. The problem is that transforming the educational > system may not be in the best selfish interests of the majority > of White residents in Minneapolis. Assigning responsibility to > the society allows liberals to rationalize away their responsibility > for educational equality and allows them to avoid making reforms > that are known to be effective. > > Dorie Rae Gallagher wrote: > > >Subject: RALLY FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS -- 5 p.m. Mon. 2/28 at the Capitol > > If you haven't figured it out yet: money is not the problem. It's > yet another rationalization for public school failure. > > Michael Atherton > Prospect Park > > > > > REMINDERS: > 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > ________________________________ > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[email protected] > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[email protected] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
