Hi John, I didn't give reasons for why I thought a separate group wasn't a good idea because I reckoned Dwight pretty much covered it. I also think your case is not typical and couldn't really be the sole basis for creating another area for new users.
To explain that comment; you have been posing two concurrent types of queries, questions about functionality and questions about set up. Most new users will start with familiarizing themselves with functionality and only then move on to set up issues. I've previously said that we could, and should, provide more resources to impart how MLO works functionally. In terms of this forum, I believe that is best achieved by a pinned thread with faq's so that a database of common questions can be built up. An alternative might be a group on something like Stack Exchange <http://stackexchange.com/sites> with the emphasis on rapid and succinct questions and answers. Stack Exchange works well but probably requires a larger number of "helpers" than we currently have here. Discussions about set up, I would suggest, are reasonably well covered already by the current forum. Ref webinars Personally most of the time I am unlikely to be able to make a webinar at a > fixed time. That's why the recordings are useful. 2. Recorded webinars (probably more rambling) Structured webinars shouldn't be rambling if they are conducted properly i.e. clear intent and delivery. They would retain the benefit of controlled interaction through live text chat and be flexible enough to divert discussion when required under the guidance of the person conducting the webinar. In my opinion, examples of software companies who do this well are YNAB and TheBrain. On Wednesday, 10 December 2014 11:57:26 UTC, John Smith wrote: > > Pottster yes, I agree with all of that, but what are your reasons for > objecting to a separate forum for new users - can't they/we do all of what > you suggest as well? > > Personally most of the time I am unlikely to be able to make a webinar at > a fixed time. > > For the record, my vote for order of priority would be: > 1. Training videos (shortish, focussed and to the point) > 2. Recorded webinars (probably more rambling) > 3. A forum we can actually *edit* our comments (but which if possible > does not send emails about those edits) > 4. A separate forum for new users (so as not to bother expert users) > 5. *Much* better templates (more below) > > Btw, for the record, as a new user, I have wanted to post about 5-10 times > as many questions as I have already posted, however if I read the tea > leaves correctly a number of folks around here think I've already posted > way too many(!). I have tried not to start too many threads... only to be > implicitly criticised for not making enough threads (due to too many topics > and questions within too few threads). [QED!] > > While I'm here I have to say continue to be gob-smacked about: > > A) Just how *powerful* MLO is in terms of depth of features (e.g. I only > just discovered control/B and control/I to bold and italicise tasks) > > B) Just how hard and *time-consuming *MLO is to set up something powerful > that I can fluidly actually use. It really, really is a productivity > platform isnt it? And the trouble with that is that the user is forced to > invent his/her own system... that actually works in practice. > > And the latter is the point! Most applications nowadays are expected to be > common sense. You pick up an iPhone, you go to Facebook and even twitter > and you are broadly expected to learn how it works experientially without > using the instructions. > > MLO is different. It is vastly complicated and although very simple > shopping lists can be set up fairly easily, in truth it demands in depth > reading of the instructions to really get anywhere at all as a GTD (or > equivalent) productivity tool. And so new users need a vast amount of help > hints and tips lest the give up in despair at the time taken to set things > up. > > Do remember that most users will have come here to better manage and SAVE > time, not waste time playing with tools (fun, borderline addictive tho it > can be once you start to know your way around!). Fwiw, personally I have > now done about 4 or 5 major pivots in my set-up! [deep sigh] > > Regarding my point 5. "Better templates", I think it would be a great > idea to have about 5 or 6 completely different setups built either directly > by us users or that us users have had a large degree of input into. Perhaps > we could submit our ideas and then vote for them... and then see which ones > get downloaded most often! > > But either way, the I contend that most new users come to MLO looking for > an application not a platform. And so the NEW user does needs to be offered > much better, much more fully worked-up setups AND to have a slightly more > meaningful way of chose between them than just a title. Also for a new > users each one template would need a short video explaining how to use them > what their comparative strengths and weaknesses are. > > I believe that this could absolutely transform MLO's take-up rate. Leading > to better revenue, better profits, more resource for MLO developers and a > better MLO for all of us. > > I would love to know how many of the existing long-timer users have > A) tried MLO but abandoned it (due to the initially overwhelming > complexity), > B) then tried various other productivity tools only to become frustrated > with the limitations of each of them, > C) finally to return to MLO having exhausted all the leading competitors. > From a business perspective, that's a pretty tortuous way of acquiring new > customers! > > J > > > On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 10:52:43 PM UTC, pottster wrote: >> >> I don't think a separate forum for new users is a good idea. Based on my >> experience of other (too many) forums I think a few additional pinned >> threads here could be useful though. Namely, list of resources for new >> users, faq's, tips & tricks, and forum rules & guidelines. In terms of >> interaction with new users, my view is that, far and away the most >> effective tool, is the webinar. This is used very successfully by a number >> of software companies who produce "full featured" products with a steep >> learning curve. Recordings of these webinars are a further permanently >> available resource. >> >> On Tuesday, 9 December 2014 17:06:12 UTC, John Smith wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> > Wait for an okay from the developers for any idea like >>> Yes, agreed. This is exactly what I am doing. Hence I started this >>> thread. >>> >>> > What's "clear" to you is not at all clear to many of us who have >>> > actually been here doing this for years. >>> >>> What irony! With huge respect, I think part of the problem is the fact >>> that many of HAVE been doing so for many years is specifically part of the >>> problem(!) i.e. You are no longer new users. And as such it is hard for you >>> to understand what it is like to be a new user - mainly because that was >>> many years ago(!) >>> >>> The case that I am presenting is that as can be seen by my footprints >>> new user and expert users have very different requirements. So different >>> that it would be of merit to physically separate the discussions. This is >>> after all what larger communities already do. >>> >>> > ...create more discord. >>> The case I am making is that if there was a place where new users could >>> 'run riot' with lots chat, albeit necessarily naive often poorly >>> thought-through chat, about how MLO works... (but seeking some hints and >>> tips from anyone who wished to help), and for the new users to be able to >>> so without treading on anyone else's toes amongst the MLO experts and >>> 'old-timers'... that this would help AVOID discord rather than create it. >>> >>> This would for example allow expert user to opt IN to multiple emails >>> from the experts area (presumably the existing group) so that they can be >>> alerted about and participate in more thoughtful discussions... And >>> simultaneously to opt OUT of any noise and chatter from new users. >>> >>> Are there any new users here who think a group for new users is a BAD >>> idea? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 2:26:56 PM UTC, Lisa S wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm going to put on my volunteer moderator hat, given to me the >>>> developer, and officially ask that you don't create any separate list >>>> about MLO right now. Wait for an okay from the developers for any idea >>>> like >>>> this before you jump in and mix things up and frankly, create more >>>> discord. >>>> This is their list, set up for peer support and discussion. If you create >>>> another list I believe it risks fracturing the community we have here. >>>> >>>> What's "clear" to you is not at all clear to many of us who have >>>> actually been here doing this for years. >>>> >>>> It's time to get back to talking about how to use the features we >>>> already have, IMNSHO. >>>> Hello >>>> >>>> It is clear that new users and long-time users have very different >>>> requirements. >>>> >>>> I think it's important for the long-time users of MLO to have a place >>>> where they can have in depth, carefully considered conversation, normally >>>> having read the relevant parts of the manual about the extremely complex >>>> system (or should I say 'platform'? ;^) ) that his MLO. And to be able >>>> to >>>> do so without distracting noise & chatter from new users. >>>> >>>> As a new user I would like a place where I can have a very different, >>>> much more informal sort of conversation. When I first moved to MLO I >>>> wanted >>>> to be able to spray out at least 1 at least one question every half hour >>>> of >>>> using the system. But I did not want to irritate the experts during the >>>> process. I do NOT expect to have all my questions answered. I want >>>> something more like a chat room or Twitter, where you tweet out to the >>>> universe and you may or may not get a direct message back, depending on >>>> whether or not anyone else is listening (i.e. following *and* reading). I >>>> also want to be able to retract or edit my questions if I discover answer >>>> to my question or have the misspelled something before anyone got to >>>> answer >>>> my question. >>>> >>>> Possible solutions: >>>> >>>> 1. Another Google Group. >>>> It's quite easy to start another Google Group called say >>>> "MyLifeOrganised.new.users" >>>> On the down side editing posts appears to be impossible (??) >>>> >>>> 2. Google+ >>>> Perhaps a more modern solution? >>>> (Although I have never used it seriously) >>>> >>>> 3. A Free Hosted Forum >>>> e.g. >>>> - https://www.proboards.com/free-forum-features >>>> - http://www.lefora.com/ >>>> - ?? >>>> >>>> >>>> Any thoughts/other suggestions? >>>> >>>> If nobody stops me in the first instance I will probably just start new >>>> Google Group as a experiment, but with the clear understanding that we >>>> decide to delete the whole group if unsuccessful and/or anyone has a >>>> better >>>> idea. >>>> >>>> J >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MyLifeOrganized" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mylifeorganized. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mylifeorganized/7b62a657-9448-468b-b1d0-fad0765faf6c%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mylifeorganized/7b62a657-9448-468b-b1d0-fad0765faf6c%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyLifeOrganized" group. 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