But when something works with IPv4, we shouldn't expect that the user experience is reduced when moving to IPv6.
Shane On Tue, Jun 23, 2026 at 11:28 AM Tom Beecher via NANOG < [email protected]> wrote: > > > > BUT: we can't expect everyone who wants to connect to the Internet to > have > > that level of competence. > > If someone's a graphic designer working from home, and they want > > resiliency with 2x ISPs, I don't think we can expect them to have (or be > > able to afford) the level of competency required to run BGP with 2 ISPs. > > > > This is just the standard complexity vs cost question. > > If someone wants 2 upstreams , that's easy. If they expect it to function a > certain way, that may require more complexity that has to be paid for. ( in > equipment or expertise.) Or they can just swap cables and reboot > something once in a while, and find that acceptable. > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2026 at 1:56 PM Arie Vayner <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I think I see a misalignment with reality: > > > > > Simple BGP config is not that demanding. If you're going to connect a > > > device to the public internet with BGP, it should require a basic level > > of > > > competence. > > > > Yes, anyone using "BGP to connect to the Internet" is required to have > > some level of competence, agreed. > > > > BUT: we can't expect everyone who wants to connect to the Internet to > have > > that level of competence. > > If someone's a graphic designer working from home, and they want > > resiliency with 2x ISPs, I don't think we can expect them to have (or be > > able to afford) the level of competency required to run BGP with 2 ISPs. > > > > Instead, I think a more realistic approach would be for them to go to > > their closest electronics retailer, buy a fancy "dual ISP" router, then > > just order 2 ISP services from whatever's available in their region, plug > > in, and forget about it. > > > > Unfortunately, getting things like NPTv6, or anything that the IPv6 > > standards/BCPs state today will really work with IPv6 for the above > setup, > > and the end result will be that they will stay on IPv4, with a 2xWAN NAT > > setup. > > From my recent experience with 2 large ISPs providing services in my > area, > > their IPv6 setups would not have worked together with NPTv6 (different > pool > > sizes, one of them only supporting a single /64 and the other one > requiring > > deep tweaking to get anything more than a /64 to work) > > > > Tnx > > Arie > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2026 at 5:19 AM Tom Beecher via NANOG < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > >> > Is there any current effort underway to make BGP more accessible, > >> > user-friendly, or "plug and play?" Anything that might address some of > >> > the more technically demanding aspects of multihoming? > >> > >> > >> Simple BGP config is not that demanding. If you're going to connect a > >> device to the public internet with BGP, it should require a basic level > of > >> competence. > >> > >> CPE vendors might set up web pages that request IPs and an ASN for you. > >> > Sets up ROAs, IRR, and the CPE, start to finish. > >> > >> > >> None of this stuff should be 'ez-mode' for the uninformed user. Heck, > >> informed users make a mess of it a lot of the time. > >> > >> Home install kits and plug and play doesn't work at a certain point. > Stop > >> trying to shoehorn it. > >> > >> On Sun, Jun 21, 2026 at 11:23 PM Brian Knight via NANOG < > >> [email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > Is there any current effort underway to make BGP more accessible, > >> > user-friendly, or "plug and play?" Anything that might address some of > >> > the more technically demanding aspects of multihoming? > >> > > >> > Quick Google says no, but maybe someone has more awareness. > >> > > >> > I'm pipe-dreaming BGP multihoming becoming as simple as connecting two > >> > Internet links to a CPE, with no reduction in MTU. No SD-WAN, no > >> > tunnels, no NAT. Works over any kind of link: 5G, wifi, GPON, cable, > >> > fiber, carrier pigeon. > >> > > >> > CPE vendors might set up web pages that request IPs and an ASN for > you. > >> > Sets up ROAs, IRR, and the CPE, start to finish. > >> > > >> > Maybe there's a new protocol where the carrier auto-generates a BGP > >> > multihoming token and sends it to the user in the order docs. User > sets > >> > the token on the CPE interface facing that provider. Successful > >> > negotiation lets the customer announce their prefix and ASN. CPE and > >> > carrier manage it all, no network staff needed. > >> > > >> > -Brian > >> > > >> > > >> > On 2026-06-21 19:29, Dorn Hetzel via NANOG wrote: > >> > > Sure, have every hotdog cart run BGP, pretty soon we'll need 64 bit > AS > >> > > numbers :) > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2026 at 6:29 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < > >> > > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> Most pizza shops aren't going to be able to manage BGP. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- > >> > >> Mike Hammett > >> > >> Intelligent Computing Solutions > >> > >> > >> > >> Midwest Internet Exchange > >> > >> > >> > >> The Brothers WISP > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > NANOG mailing list > >> > > >> > > >> > https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/7AMX6YN4MRTN7UQ5CQFNYI3KJCKKFJMZ/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NANOG mailing list > >> > >> > https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/MIC6KX6AZKYZ5OWF4YBPG6754POTGOEI/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NANOG mailing list > > https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/7AJTPSWZIS37HTGF5KOLTVBZ4XK7SPUK/ _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/4WX55UBLCC5ZR6IWZ6JAMHM25DAHN75Y/
