On Sep 28, 2020, at 8:34 AM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Why stray away from how PC games were 20 years ago where there was a
dedicated server and clients just spoke to servers?
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*"Justin Wilson (Lists)" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
*To:*"North American Network Operators' Group" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent:*Monday, September 28, 2020 7:22:28 AM
*Subject:*Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
There are many things going on with gaming that makes natted IPv4 an
issue when it comes to consoles and gaming in general. When you
break it down it makes sense.
-You have voice chat
-You are receiving data from servers about other people in the game
-You are sending data to servers about yourself
-If you are using certain features where you are “the host” then you
are serving content from your gaming console. This is not much
different than a customer running a web server. You can’t have more
than one customer running a port 80 web-server behind nat.
-Streaming to services like Twitch or YouTube
All of these take up standard, agreed upon ports. It’s really only
prevalent on gaming consoles because they are doing many functions.
Look at it another way. You have a customer doing the following.
-Making a VOIP call
-Streaming a movie
-Running a web server
-Running bittorrent on a single port
-Having a camera folks need to access from the outside world
This is why platforms like Xbox developed things like Teredo.
Justin Wilson
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
—
https://j2sw.com <https://j2sw.com/>- All things jsw (AS209109)
https://blog.j2sw.com <https://blog.j2sw.com/>- Podcast and Blog
On Sep 27, 2020, at 9:33 PM, Daniel Sterling
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Matt Hoppes raises an interesting question,
At the risk of this being off-topic, in the latest call of duty
games I've played, their UDP-NAT-breaking algorithm seems to work
rather well and should function fine even behind CGNAT. Ironically
turning on upnp makes this *worse*, because when their algorithm
probes to see what ports to use, upnp sends all traffic from the
"magical xbox port" to one box instead of letting NAT control the
ports. This does cause problems when multiple xboxes are behind
one NAT doing upnp. If upnp is on and both xboxes are fully
powered off and then turned on one at a time, things do work. But
when upnp is off everything works w/o having to do that.
There are many other games and many CPE NAT boxes that may do
horrible things, but CGNAT by itself shouldn't cause problems for
any recent device / gaming system.
It is true that I've yet to see any FPS game use ipv6. I assume
that's cuz they can't count on users having v6, so they have to
support v4, and it wouldn't be worth their while to have their
gaming host support dual-stack. just a guess there
-- Dan
On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 7:29 PM Mike Hammett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Actually, uPNP is the only way to get two devices to work
behind one public IP, at least with XBox 360s. I haven't kept
up in that realm.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*"Matt Hoppes" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To:*"Darin Steffl" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Cc:*"North American Network Operators' Group"
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent:*Sunday, September 27, 2020 1:22:51 PM
*Subject:*Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that
night not work - two devices trying to use UPNP behind the
same PAT device, an apartment complex or hotel WiFi system, etc.
On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Darin Steffl
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
This isn't rocket science.
Give each customer their own ipv4 IP address and turn on
upnp, then they will have open NAT to play their game and
host.
On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 12:50 PM Matt Hoppes
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I know the solution is always “IPv6”, but I’m curious
if anyone here knows why gaming consoles are so stupid
when it comes to IPv4?
We have VoIP and video systems that work fine through
multiple layers of PAT and NAT. Why do we still have
gaming consoles, in 2020, that can’t find their way
through a PAT system with STUN or other methods?
It seems like this should be a simple solution, why
are we still opening ports or having systems that
don’t work?
