For certain styles of games or for games with crappy netcode, it can be. For most others performance is perfectly acceptable in a peer to peer in the vast majority of cases.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:11 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > Yet (apparently) worse? > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Tom Beecher" <[email protected]> > *To: *"Mike Hammett" <[email protected]> > *Cc: *"Justin Wilson (Lists)" <[email protected]>, "North American Network > Operators' Group" <[email protected]> > *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 9:21:09 AM > *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 > > Why stray away from how PC games were 20 years ago where there was a >> dedicated server and clients just spoke to servers? > > > Much cheaper to just let all the game clients talk peer to peer than it is > to maintain regional dedicated server infrastructure. > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 8:35 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Why stray away from how PC games were 20 years ago where there was a >> dedicated server and clients just spoke to servers? >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Justin Wilson (Lists)" <[email protected]> >> *To: *"North American Network Operators' Group" <[email protected]> >> *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:22:28 AM >> *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 >> >> There are many things going on with gaming that makes natted IPv4 an >> issue when it comes to consoles and gaming in general. When you break it >> down it makes sense. >> >> -You have voice chat >> -You are receiving data from servers about other people in the game >> -You are sending data to servers about yourself >> -If you are using certain features where you are “the host” then you are >> serving content from your gaming console. This is not much different than >> a customer running a web server. You can’t have more than one customer >> running a port 80 web-server behind nat. >> -Streaming to services like Twitch or YouTube >> >> All of these take up standard, agreed upon ports. It’s really only >> prevalent on gaming consoles because they are doing many functions. Look >> at it another way. You have a customer doing the following. >> >> -Making a VOIP call >> -Streaming a movie >> -Running a web server >> -Running bittorrent on a single port >> -Having a camera folks need to access from the outside world >> >> This is why platforms like Xbox developed things like Teredo. >> >> Justin Wilson >> [email protected] >> >> — >> https://j2sw.com - All things jsw (AS209109) >> https://blog.j2sw.com - Podcast and Blog >> >> On Sep 27, 2020, at 9:33 PM, Daniel Sterling <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Matt Hoppes raises an interesting question, >> >> At the risk of this being off-topic, in the latest call of duty games >> I've played, their UDP-NAT-breaking algorithm seems to work rather well and >> should function fine even behind CGNAT. Ironically turning on upnp makes >> this *worse*, because when their algorithm probes to see what ports to use, >> upnp sends all traffic from the "magical xbox port" to one box instead of >> letting NAT control the ports. This does cause problems when multiple >> xboxes are behind one NAT doing upnp. If upnp is on and both xboxes are >> fully powered off and then turned on one at a time, things do work. But >> when upnp is off everything works w/o having to do that. >> >> There are many other games and many CPE NAT boxes that may do horrible >> things, but CGNAT by itself shouldn't cause problems for any recent device >> / gaming system. >> >> It is true that I've yet to see any FPS game use ipv6. I assume that's >> cuz they can't count on users having v6, so they have to support v4, and it >> wouldn't be worth their while to have their gaming host support dual-stack. >> just a guess there >> >> -- Dan >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 7:29 PM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Actually, uPNP is the only way to get two devices to work behind one >>> public IP, at least with XBox 360s. I haven't kept up in that realm. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <[email protected]> >>> *To: *"Darin Steffl" <[email protected]> >>> *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group" <[email protected]> >>> *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 1:22:51 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 >>> >>> I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that night not work >>> - two devices trying to use UPNP behind the same PAT device, an apartment >>> complex or hotel WiFi system, etc. >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Darin Steffl <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> This isn't rocket science. >>> >>> Give each customer their own ipv4 IP address and turn on upnp, then they >>> will have open NAT to play their game and host. >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 12:50 PM Matt Hoppes < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I know the solution is always “IPv6”, but I’m curious if anyone here >>>> knows why gaming consoles are so stupid when it comes to IPv4? >>>> >>>> We have VoIP and video systems that work fine through multiple layers >>>> of PAT and NAT. Why do we still have gaming consoles, in 2020, that can’t >>>> find their way through a PAT system with STUN or other methods? >>>> >>>> It seems like this should be a simple solution, why are we still >>>> opening ports or having systems that don’t work? >>> >>> >>> >> >> >
