I agree with you totally below. I've also learned new things, to be
honest, the discussions around Furtherfield and role-playing have been
fascinating and inspiring. And all that's to the good. I've also been more
or less meditating on Frankenstein - it's interesting that Science devoted
a special issue to the book a few years ago - the only work of art or lit.
that's merited the attention -
And so forth and so on. I've been collaborating with Maria Damon and Azure
the past couple of days and that's been phenomenal and creative -
Best Alan
On Mon, 31 May 2021, Johannes Birringer via NetBehaviour wrote:
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 20:58:58 +0000
From: Johannes Birringer via NetBehaviour
<[email protected]>
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<[email protected]>
Cc: Johannes Birringer <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] email lists -
hello dear friends
i use this address, as I know a few of you, or a certain number of you, and
have worked and corresponded with you. I value this list, and like Alan, or
Annie, and others i recently communicated with (for example with Max Herman on
the Mona Lisa), I enjoy learning about your work, your ideas, your experiences.
I am not sure anything has changed, at least not for me. I look forward to
postings here, my only other regular outlets are the dance tech community, a
debate forum called MOCO, and CRUMB, I have lost interest in empyre (too
academic and correct-theory speak driven, elitist and unaware of its own
elitism) but read it in on occasion, for distraction, and I try to avoid
instagram and facebook as a discussion forum, as one cannot take them
seriously. I am an older choreographer; so Alan I read you, I mean I hear your
rersponse, but 'old' means little. I felt young yesterday, the sun laughed,
people milled around, i was in central London for the first time in 14 months,
visiting a
n
odd exhibit at the 'Royal Academy' called Emin/Munch, what more can one ask
for...
take good care
Johannes Birringer
________________________________________
From: NetBehaviour <[email protected]> on behalf of Alan
Sondheim via NetBehaviour <[email protected]>
Sent: 30 May 2021 23:52
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
Cc: Alan Sondheim
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] email lists -
I'd be sorry to lose that as well; I wish I could do something about it. It
seems to me, having just come out of the Electronic Literature Conference, that
new media work is more evident than ever, but perhaps Netbehaviour is no longer
the place for it - but as far as e-lists go, I see nothing equivalent :-(
Best, Alan, thank you for this --
On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 3:32 PM Edward Picot via NetBehaviour
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
Alan and Annie,
I think it's partly because people aren't posting their new work, or notices about their new work,
on here as much as they once did - which is partly because a lot of people have moved away from New
Media Art and gone more into old-fashioned things like "pictures" and
"writing", and NetBehaviour doesn't necessarily feel like the right vehicle for those.
I'm spending a lot of time on Instagram these days, which I much prefer to Facebook or Twitter, and
I see that Michael Szpakowski and Simon McLennan are both on there publishing new stuff on a
regular basis.
But I think NetBehavour still has this capacity to suddenly go from being very
quiet to being incredibly voluble and fast-moving if somebody happens to raise
a subject that really gets people thinking and talking. I've never known
another online forum quite like it as a vehicle for debate, and I'd be very
sorry to lose that.
Edward
On 30/05/2021 19:59, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour wrote:
Dear Annie and netbehaviourists
I do feel differently; I've had amazing exchanges with you and Johannes Birringer and many others, and I
can't imagine these occurring on Facebook; the very phenomenology of the stream mitigates against that. I
don't know what you mean by "old" "intellectuals" since a number of people on the lists
are also young. The list isn't sex, but sex is and sex is a lot faster than a list. It's the idea of
"old" that bothers me; on Facebook where I post, as I mentioned, I get numbers of likes or loves to
an image, but texts aren't taken seriously.
Which for me reflects the whole intellectual apparatus of at least the US and
possibly Europe - the need to be an academic or gallery- or magazine-
affiliated. I have none of these and at ELO I felt for example as a total
outsider. And that's a real problem. There are constant money issues, access
issues, equipment issues, travel issues, survival issues, health issues,
audience issues, etc. that are available if not taken for granted if you work
at a university or tech company. Those issues dominate. My equipment is
seriously poor at this point. God knows what happens in the rest of the world,
where there may be no equipment at all. And these issues are fundamentally
class issues: the intellectual class, old or not, is defined and siloed by its
connections and potentials for connections. I wake up sometimes thinking
critically and artistically I'm dead and why continue at all. And if I feel
that way, again - God knows what happens in the rest of the world.
I don't read everything on mailing lists, but I take the time to at least skim.
And when I do reply (and I will always reply if I can to you, for example),
I'll do more than click stupidly on like/love/care/angry and other emoji (which
I use as well) (and which are frankly insulting - someone takes the time to put
up something that make take hours, weeks - and the reply is a click??
It's the stream stream stream stream stream which is NOT flow but inherently
violent, sexist, racist, ageist, and anything else that excludes. Influencers
bet on it: become part of the part or I WAS HERE BUT I DISAPPEAR. (maybe
misquote from The Harder They Come).
As far as NFT goes, I agree with your remark; again it drains any real
discussion re: violence, aesthetics, philosophy, sexism, racism, etc. .. It's
party time; you can't think against the stream; the boat you might rock
founders on it.
As far as Netbehaviour goes, I do hope discussion and presentation both pick up
here. And I do NOT think it's an issue of age or intellectualism - but a need
for ANYONE to have a space to think and discuss slowly enough within a space of
consideration and considerateness...
Best, Alan, and thank you for the reply.
On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:55 AM Annie Abrahams via NetBehaviour
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
Dear Alan and netbehaviourists
I don't know why people write less in netbehaviour. Some hints: Email is not the favorite way of
communication anymore. Information is toooo much everywhere, people tend to prioritise what is
usefull. Etc etc. Mostly "old" "intelectuals" exchanging ... The list isn't
sexy ...
I do miss the old mailing list where people discussed often without a fear to
be ridicule, could ask stupid (what is that?) questions and get answers. But I
admit I also don't always take the time to read all.
Last week I posted a remark on a not to be mentioned social network " I hate NFT -
and am bored by it - no real perspective for change, just assets - it is consuming my
attention without giving me anything" and got more than a 100 reactions, by far the
most ever I think. I read it all, got links to a multitude of articles I mostly had
already read.
And still I can't really make up my mind about it.
Then I thought what I would need is not another article, nor a podcast or talk,
but a real conversation about this. A place to exchange about it, a place where
no-one tells me what to read, but carefully answers my stupid questions, and
asks me questions ....
not an email exchange, but a conversation .... (that maybe could be done via
email exchange ..., maybe...)
Such a thing is lacking! Especially in Covid times.
Bye bye
have a nice end of the day all
Annie
---------
Moving Paintings, net art Sans
Objet<https://www.centrepompidou.fr/fr/programme/agenda/evenement/8ZjR4xR>,
exposition en ligne Centre Pompidou, 19/05 - 19/11 2021.
Videos from Utterings Supra Semiotics Performance and Panel
discussion<https://utterings.hotglue.me/?elo>
<https://utterings.hotglue.me/?elo> Toward a Supra-Semiotic Telepresent Communication
ELO 2021 Platform (Post?) Pandemic
---------
On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 3:49 PM Alan Sondheim
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I've noticed this, and many other lists, have gone mostly silent (except
for neighborhood lists), and I'm wondering if this has to do with the end
of many lockdown restrictions? Neighbors are taking care of neighbors, and
of course in-person contact has increased enormously.
The lists served two purposes during the height of the epidemic; in
addition to their stated content, they also upheld community. Now both
seem to have gone silent, at least for the moment.
Comments greatly appreciated
Best, Alan
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=====================================================
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