Two things concerning the Oour civilisation is fucked¹ thread.

Firstly, had they only just noticed? It is a given that any civilisation is
doomed (eventually).

Secondly, it seems rather arrogant to suggest that you might have some sense
of a potential solution. People have been tragi-comically unsuccessful over
centuries seeking a way out of this mess (civilisation).

I¹d rather live in a fucked up world that in somebody else¹s utopia. What
often fucks us up is other people¹s solutions. Sartre had a few words on
this theme. Another useful image here is the ship of fools (Bosch and
Breughel¹s versions are decent places to start). I can¹t really see any
other viable model of the social, nor any model other than the social (for
humans).

Best

Simon


Simon Biggs

Research Professor
edinburgh college of art
[email protected]
www.eca.ac.uk

Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments
CIRCLE research group
www.eca.ac.uk/circle/

[email protected]
www.littlepig.org.uk
AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk



From: Michael Szpakowski <[email protected]>
Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] DIWO at The Dark Mountain

<"Our civilisation is fucked! What are we gonna
 do?" >
Well if it is reducible to that, why didn't they just say that?
And if that is all they meant, why are we worrying about *art* and not
*doing* something?
I live for art but if I *am* in a boat going over a cataract I don't paint a
picture of it.
The prolix style & ridiculously self-regarding and overheated tone came from
the manifesto, not Edward's clinical dissection of it.
 I say clinical dissection, because although it's undoubtedly true that
Edward can *write* whereas these folk can't, I agree what matters is the
ideas and, far from a Canute moment, Edward assists us greatly here too
although he admittedly draws back from the obvious conclusion, which is that
there is no separation to be made between the tone of the manifesto & its
content. The truth is the bombast is not accidental, but integral. It arises
out of a fundamental poverty of thought. The rotten style is a function of
the intellectual void at the heart of the whole enterprise.
Civilisation bad? OK. Let's see them give up the internet, polio, smallpox
and TB vaccines, printing, film, anaesthetics, amplification, antibiotics,
map making, mathematics, musical instruments, a world governed by some
attempt at rationality and not ghosts, devils and malign Gods. Fuck it
-let's give up the written word, which after all is an attribute of
civilisation. Let's return to a lifespan of 25-35 for most people, carried
for the most part in a desperate attempt at subsistence... Why not go even
go further back in the search for a chimerical purity,  the one that
relieves us of the responsibility of actually *doing* anything that might
change anything, and give up cooking food.
Artistically the, quite random, privileging of "stories" could come straight
out of one of those expensive screenwriting courses which both contribute to
and in turn chart the market led corruption of the art of film...
Just to be slightly more polemical, too, on the question of localism. To
spell it out - who are the current most high profile proponents of the idea
of artistic localism in this country? - the bloody BNP, with their, in
fairiness unrequited, love affair with English folk music. Of course I'm not
accusing the manifesto authors of being soft on Nazism, just of a failure to
read history, to be even a tiny bit politically literate, to look and to
think.
I think you're right on your central point though, Bob -the manifesto does
essentially boil down to those two phrases, which is why it's a recipe for
utter political passivity with a couple of quite randomly subjective and
unthought out artistic afterthoughts bolted on.
michael


--- On Wed, 10/28/09, bob catchpole <[email protected]> wrote:

> From: bob catchpole <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] DIWO at The Dark Mountain
> To: "NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity"
<[email protected]>
> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 11:44 AM
> Edward,
> 
> The 22-page manifesto can be summed up in two sentences
> "Our civilisation is fucked! What are we gonna
> do?" A declaration and a challenge.
> 
> You say your problem isn't really with the former.
> Given it's momentous implications your response - a
> complaint about literary style - is pure tragicomedy. A
> classic Canute moment. And an example of an of issue
> described in the manifesto.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> Edward Picot wrote Tuesday, 27 October, 2009
> 22:06:31
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> 
> 
> My problem with this is
> not so much to do with the
> ideas behind the Dark Mountain Project as the language and
> manner in which they
> are expressed. Let's have a look at some typical bits
> of 
> phraseology:
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
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