Hello all, I must say, I find the current discussions about the DIWO at the Dark Mountain project quite enthralling.
One of the valuable things about DIWO and also Netbehavour, is that an awful lot of the context and meaning happens through a process of discussion and sharing thoughts and ideas whenever we all (or some of us) decide to participate or collaborate on here. I think we need to remember that this form of engagement is unique and quite a special thing, even if it may not feel positive sometimes. There are some paradigm shifting elements which I have only begun to understand, such as this experience of sharing an occassion to deconstruct whatever is collectively explored. Yet, in the past, especially with something or with someone you love, there becomes a point, a moment when deconstruction can turn into something else, I would hope and trust that some people understand what I mean by this. And of course there is more happening which I still need to evaluate, I need more time to know where I am coming from with this aspect, so forgive me if I am not as clear as I need to be here. But it relates to all this openness and sharing of dialogue on here, when taking part in projects together. The immediate thing which I can see and definitely appreciate clearly above all else, is the vulnerability and trust which is actually not much discussed or mentioned during the experience of working together on this list, yet I personally see these 2 things as essential. I actually believe that being vulnerable and trusting others is something that a project like this is asking, even if it is not said 'literally'. I want people to be more open in being vulnerable on here - I will stop here because I am worried I may be laughed at... Also, I will not be diverted by the manifesto in a literal way, I will exploit it so I can use my imagination according to my needs to understand it on my terms with a flexible mind, like an artist does :-) karen On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Michael Szpakowski <[email protected]>wrote: > <"Our civilisation is fucked! What are we gonna > do?" > > Well if it is reducible to that, why didn't they just say that? > And if that is all they meant, why are we worrying about *art* and not > *doing* something? > I live for art but if I *am* in a boat going over a cataract I don't paint > a picture of it. > The prolix style & ridiculously self-regarding and overheated tone came > from the manifesto, not Edward's clinical dissection of it. > I say clinical dissection, because although it's undoubtedly true that > Edward can *write* whereas these folk can't, I agree what matters is the > ideas and, far from a Canute moment, Edward assists us greatly here too > although he admittedly draws back from the obvious conclusion, which is that > there is no separation to be made between the tone of the manifesto & its > content. The truth is the bombast is not accidental, but integral. It arises > out of a fundamental poverty of thought. The rotten style is a function of > the intellectual void at the heart of the whole enterprise. > Civilisation bad? OK. Let's see them give up the internet, polio, smallpox > and TB vaccines, printing, film, anaesthetics, amplification, antibiotics, > map making, mathematics, musical instruments, a world governed by some > attempt at rationality and not ghosts, devils and malign Gods. Fuck it > -let's give up the written word, which after all is an attribute of > civilisation. Let's return to a lifespan of 25-35 for most people, carried > for the most part in a desperate attempt at subsistence... Why not go even > go further back in the search for a chimerical purity, the one that > relieves us of the responsibility of actually *doing* anything that might > change anything, and give up cooking food. > Artistically the, quite random, privileging of "stories" could come > straight out of one of those expensive screenwriting courses which both > contribute to and in turn chart the market led corruption of the art of > film... > Just to be slightly more polemical, too, on the question of localism. To > spell it out - who are the current most high profile proponents of the idea > of artistic localism in this country? - the bloody BNP, with their, in > fairiness unrequited, love affair with English folk music. Of course I'm not > accusing the manifesto authors of being soft on Nazism, just of a failure to > read history, to be even a tiny bit politically literate, to look and to > think. > I think you're right on your central point though, Bob -the manifesto does > essentially boil down to those two phrases, which is why it's a recipe for > utter political passivity with a couple of quite randomly subjective and > unthought out artistic afterthoughts bolted on. > michael > > > --- On Wed, 10/28/09, bob catchpole <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: bob catchpole <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] DIWO at The Dark Mountain > > To: "NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity" < > [email protected]> > > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 11:44 AM > > Edward, > > > > The 22-page manifesto can be summed up in two sentences > > "Our civilisation is fucked! What are we gonna > > do?" A declaration and a challenge. > > > > You say your problem isn't really with the former. > > Given it's momentous implications your response - a > > complaint about literary style - is pure tragicomedy. A > > classic Canute moment. And an example of an of issue > > described in the manifesto. > > > > Bob > > > > > > Edward Picot wrote Tuesday, 27 October, 2009 > > 22:06:31 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My problem with this is > > not so much to do with the > > ideas behind the Dark Mountain Project as the language and > > manner in which they > > are expressed. Let's have a look at some typical bits > > of > > phraseology: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NetBehaviour mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >
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