I concur... C
> Your comments correspond very well. > > Simon Biggs > > Research Professor > edinburgh college of art > [email protected] > www.eca.ac.uk > > Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments > CIRCLE research group > www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ > > [email protected] > www.littlepig.org.uk > AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk > > > > From: Mark Hancock <[email protected]> > Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > <[email protected]> > Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:56:00 +0000 > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] education > > I'm well illiterate, but i'll have a go at joining in the discussion > anyway. > > As someone who had a disruptive education in my early years, I've always > had > a hit and miss relationship with the education system. Like Marc, i tended > toward the autodidactic approach, which in itself creates problems when, > as > a twelve year old you're questioning the content of the classes you've > chosen. And most of my life I've dipped in and out of various levels of > education. > > As for 'education' supressing creativity, I'd say that it can feel that > way > at times, when you're in the educational process (I sometimes felt i did > better work before I did my MA, but that's just me) because the academy > requires us to finish or at least deliver projects within defined > timelines > and to preset briefs. Often creative playfulness comes from not having > boundaries and tiimelines. So education can feel too tightly structured to > allow 'real' creativity ( that outdated romantic notion!) at times, or for > some. > > However, despite this, and I believe this applies across all disciplines, > from law, Architecture, design and art. It's important to realise that > the > education system doesn't expect to process and spit out the other end, > fully-formed, fucntional artists etcetera. Education is just the beginning > of a life long process. > > Heh, sorry that probably doesn't respond to anyone's comments. > > cheers > > Mark > > 2010/1/11 Simon Biggs <[email protected]> >> I agree. However, whilst I understand what you mean, phenomenally, by >> stating >> that knowledge ³is out there² to be discovered it is possible to argue >> that >> knowledge is something that is produced as much as it is discovered. >> This is >> another dimension of the phenomenological gap, where what we know is as >> much a >> function of ourselves as the other. In this respect education is as much >> about >> the production of knowledge as preparation for its revelation. This is >> what >> research is most obviously about. >> >> >> Best >> >> Simon >> >> >> Simon Biggs >> >> Research Professor >> edinburgh college of art >> [email protected] <http://ac.uk> >> www.eca.ac.uk <http://ac.uk> >> >> Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments >> CIRCLE research group >> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ <http://ac.uk/circle/> >> >> [email protected] <http://[email protected]> >> www.littlepig.org.uk <http://www.littlepig.org.uk> >> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk >> >> >> >> From: Pall Thayer <[email protected] <http://[email protected]> > >> >> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity >> <[email protected] <http://[email protected]> > >> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:33:20 +0000 >> >> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity >> <[email protected] <http://[email protected]> > >> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] education >> >> >> I think it's a stretch to say that education "suppresses" creativity >> and I would say that it depends as much if not more on the student as >> the institution. >> >> But regarding something that was stated earlier, I think it was >> something about Marc's post, I think some of the statements suggest >> that education is intended to provide knowledge. It doesn't. As has >> been expressed, the knowledge is all out there for anyone to see, >> education works more towards contextualizing it and providing an >> understanding of it within particular frameworks. This is not a bad >> thing as long as you're aware of it. It accelerates the process of >> understanding and once you understand someone else's understanding of >> some knowledge, it's easier to formulate your own. >> >> Pall >> >> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Simon Biggs <[email protected] >> <http://[email protected]> > wrote: >>> > Sorry for being one of the over-articulate ones. >>> > >>> > I agree most education suppresses creativity, but it really depends >>> on the >>> > school. In the UK music education has taken a hammering and little >>> remains >>> > in the school system. However, in Scotland it is much better than >>> England >>> > and, within that, some schools better than others. My son (10) has >>> three >>> > music classes a week at school, on two instruments (violin and >>> guitar) >>> along >>> > with concerts and other activities. He thrives in that environment >>> and I >> > see >>> > him having opportunities to realise his creativity in ways that were >>> denied >>> > to me when I was his age. Those music options will be available to >>> him >>> until >>> > he finishes school at 17, so long as the government doesn¹t kill the >>> funding >>> > stream that allows it to happen. So long as this sort of programme is >>> > sustained I am actually somewhat optimistic for the next generation. >>> > >>> > Best >>> > >>> > Simon >>> > >>> > >>> > Simon Biggs >>> > >>> > Research Professor >>> > edinburgh college of art >>> > [email protected] <http://[email protected]> >>> > www.eca.ac.uk <http://www.eca.ac.uk> >>> > >>> > Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments >>> > CIRCLE research group >>> > www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ <http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/> >>> > >>> > [email protected] <http://[email protected]> >>> > www.littlepig.org.uk <http://www.littlepig.org.uk> >>> > AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk >>> > >>> > >>> > ________________________________ >>> > From: bob catchpole <[email protected] >>> <http://[email protected]> > >>> > Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity >>> > <[email protected] <http://[email protected]> >>> > >>> > Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:54:56 +0000 (GMT) >>> > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity >>> > <[email protected] <http://[email protected]> >>> > >>> > Subject: [NetBehaviour] education >>> > >>> > Hi Marc, >>> > >>> > I think "education" is what you find on a list like this. It's messy, >>> > completely unplanned and often happens in unexpected ways. We're here >>> > because we're learning from each other. >>> > >>> > In the process, each person's contribution is crucial, hence the need >>> to be >>> > "tolerant" - especially of the over-articulate who tend to dominate. >>> (They >>> > can't help it, which is why we like them!). >>> > >>> > Your experience and perception of education no doubt accounts for >>> your >>> > commitment to netbehaviour. I hope you find the following wisdom and >>> humour >>> > heartening. >>> > >>> > >>> > http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.h>> > tml >>> > >>> > Bob >>> > >>> > >>> > ________________________________ >>> > From: marc garrett <[email protected] >>> <http://[email protected]> > wrote Sun, 10 January, >>> > 2010 15:44:25 >>> > >>> > As someone who mainly comes from a self-education position, or rather >>> > from a place where I come from a very poor and violent working class >>> > family - which spent most of the time either being put in social >>> care, >>> > whether this be in borstals and prison, plus family members vanishing >>> > because of the failures of 70's social (un)care systems. Just think >>> of >>> > 'Cathy Come Home' by Ken Loach - >>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Come_Home and may get some idea of >>> my >>> > own personal history. Moving on from that I wish to mention that, for >>> me >>> > education is one of the most important aspects of human development >>> and >>> > a human right. >>> > >>> > Because I was not fortunate when younger to be able to experience a >>> > decent education, I had to discover various sneaky ways in finding >>> > information that the terrible school I was at, was not teaching me. >>> My >>> > passion to discover what was going in the world beyond the chaos of >>> my >>> > everyday circumstance was strong - even obsessed, whether it was in >>> > science, politics, technology, history, philosophy or art, I would >>> bunk >>> > school regularly and spend an awful lot of my time in the Essex >>> Library, >>> > which thankfully was in Southend-on-Sea, a town 50 miles from London. >>> > Some examples of what I read from the age of 12 and 13 and (of >>> course) >>> > onwards, were books such as the The Mass Psychology of Fascism by >>> > Wilhelm Reich, The Divided Self by R. D. Laing, James Joyce, T. S. >>> Eliot >>> > and D. H. Lawrence. Carl Jung, Fear of Flying by Erica Jong, Herbert >>> > Read - especially Education Through Art and The Paradox of Anarchism, >>> > loads of art books. I am not saying that I understood these >>> > publications, but I am saying that it encouraged me to learn more and >>> I >>> > have not stopped since. >>> > >>> > So, when I think of education I do not immediately think of official >>> > education as in universities or colleges. For I am a strong advocate >>> of >>> > self-education, which also involves one being self critical as well. >>> > There is larger and broader context where individuals have the choice >>> to >>> > explore life, art and all the other equally important subjects >>> outside >>> > institution environments as well. One of my personal worries in >>> respect >>> > of UK culture, which may be also the same regarding USA, although >>> > influenced through different historical, political situations is >>> that, >>> > my own class - as in, working class has turned into a mass of >>> gibbering >>> > X Factor driven bimbos. Of course, this is not a universal issue, but >>> > the consumer orientated mediation of our cultures via neo liberal >>> > agendas have not helped. >>> > >>> > I personally do not think that individuals themselves should deny any >>> > official forms of education. For there are some good educators here >>> and >>> > there who are decent and authentic in appreciating how to learn >>> > themselves, and are active in the process of engaging with students >>> in >>> > ways that attempt in spirit, to transcend beyond the bland and >>> > over-efficient trappings of slack management structures that manner >>> are >>> > dealing with. Not just this, economics is factor in the real world >>> and >>> > gaining degrees and learning via institutional means gets you a job. >>> > From that, if you are artist you get some proper money to fund your >>> own >>> > projects on your own terms etc... >>> > >>> > The irony of learning outside of my school environment at that age >>> was >>> > that, at 14 I was asked to go to college at weekends by the Essex >>> > council. Which was strange because all the other students were on >>> > average 17-20 years of age. I was told to go back to school or they >>> > would put me in a Borstal, so I did in the end. >>> > >>> > From this experience ideas around education have also been informed >>> by >>> > writers such as 'Deschooling Society' by Ivan Illich, and other works >>> > such "Pedagogy of the Oppressed' by Paulo Friere. Yet, in contrast to >>> > all of this art (whatever medium) as a from of creative expression >>> has >>> > always been my main agenda and always will be :-) >>> > >>> > wishing you well. >>> > >>> > marc >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ________________________________ >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > NetBehaviour mailing list >>> > [email protected] <http://[email protected]> >>> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> > >>> > Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, >>> number >>> > SC009201 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > NetBehaviour mailing list >>> > [email protected] <http://[email protected]> >>> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> > >> >> >> >> -- >> ***************************** >> Pall Thayer >> artist >> http://www.this.is/pallit >> ***************************** >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] <http://[email protected]> >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, >> number >> SC009201 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number > SC009201 > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
