I'm well illiterate, but i'll have a go at joining in the discussion anyway.
As someone who had a disruptive education in my early years, I've always had a hit and miss relationship with the education system. Like Marc, i tended toward the autodidactic approach, which in itself creates problems when, as a twelve year old you're questioning the content of the classes you've chosen. And most of my life I've dipped in and out of various levels of education. As for 'education' supressing creativity, I'd say that it can feel that way at times, when you're in the educational process (I sometimes felt i did better work before I did my MA, but that's just me) because the academy requires us to finish or at least deliver projects within defined timelines and to preset briefs. Often creative playfulness comes from not having boundaries and tiimelines. So education can feel too tightly structured to allow 'real' creativity ( that outdated romantic notion!) at times, or for some. However, despite this, and I believe this applies across all disciplines, from law, Architecture, design and art. It's important to realise that the education system doesn't expect to process and spit out the other end, fully-formed, fucntional artists etcetera. Education is just the beginning of a life long process. Heh, sorry that probably doesn't respond to anyone's comments. cheers Mark 2010/1/11 Simon Biggs <[email protected]> > I agree. However, whilst I understand what you mean, phenomenally, by > stating that knowledge “is out there” to be discovered it is possible to > argue that knowledge is something that is produced as much as it is > discovered. This is another dimension of the phenomenological gap, where > what we know is as much a function of ourselves as the other. In this > respect education is as much about the production of knowledge as > preparation for its revelation. This is what research is most obviously > about. > > > Best > > Simon > > > Simon Biggs > > Research Professor > edinburgh college of art > [email protected] > www.eca.ac.uk > > *C*reative *I*nterdisciplinary *R*esearch into *C*o*L*laborative *E* > nvironments > CIRCLE research group > www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ > > [email protected] > www.littlepig.org.uk > AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk > > > ------------------------------ > *From: *Pall Thayer <[email protected]> > > *Reply-To: *NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity < > [email protected]> > *Date: *Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:33:20 +0000 > > *To: *NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity < > [email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [NetBehaviour] education > > > I think it's a stretch to say that education "suppresses" creativity > and I would say that it depends as much if not more on the student as > the institution. > > But regarding something that was stated earlier, I think it was > something about Marc's post, I think some of the statements suggest > that education is intended to provide knowledge. It doesn't. As has > been expressed, the knowledge is all out there for anyone to see, > education works more towards contextualizing it and providing an > understanding of it within particular frameworks. This is not a bad > thing as long as you're aware of it. It accelerates the process of > understanding and once you understand someone else's understanding of > some knowledge, it's easier to formulate your own. > > Pall > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Simon Biggs <[email protected]> wrote: > > Sorry for being one of the over-articulate ones. > > > > I agree most education suppresses creativity, but it really depends on > the > > school. In the UK music education has taken a hammering and little > remains > > in the school system. However, in Scotland it is much better than England > > and, within that, some schools better than others. My son (10) has three > > music classes a week at school, on two instruments (violin and guitar) > along > > with concerts and other activities. He thrives in that environment and I > see > > him having opportunities to realise his creativity in ways that were > denied > > to me when I was his age. Those music options will be available to him > until > > he finishes school at 17, so long as the government doesn’t kill the > funding > > stream that allows it to happen. So long as this sort of programme is > > sustained I am actually somewhat optimistic for the next generation. > > > > Best > > > > Simon > > > > > > Simon Biggs > > > > Research Professor > > edinburgh college of art > > [email protected] > > www.eca.ac.uk > > > > Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments > > CIRCLE research group > > www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ > > > > [email protected] > > www.littlepig.org.uk > > AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: bob catchpole <[email protected]> > > Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > > <[email protected]> > > Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:54:56 +0000 (GMT) > > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: [NetBehaviour] education > > > > Hi Marc, > > > > I think "education" is what you find on a list like this. It's messy, > > completely unplanned and often happens in unexpected ways. We're here > > because we're learning from each other. > > > > In the process, each person's contribution is crucial, hence the need to > be > > "tolerant" - especially of the over-articulate who tend to dominate. > (They > > can't help it, which is why we like them!). > > > > Your experience and perception of education no doubt accounts for your > > commitment to netbehaviour. I hope you find the following wisdom and > humour > > heartening. > > > > > http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html > > > > Bob > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: marc garrett <[email protected]> wrote Sun, 10 > January, > > 2010 15:44:25 > > > > As someone who mainly comes from a self-education position, or rather > > from a place where I come from a very poor and violent working class > > family - which spent most of the time either being put in social care, > > whether this be in borstals and prison, plus family members vanishing > > because of the failures of 70's social (un)care systems. Just think of > > 'Cathy Come Home' by Ken Loach - > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Come_Home and may get some idea of my > > own personal history. Moving on from that I wish to mention that, for me > > education is one of the most important aspects of human development and > > a human right. > > > > Because I was not fortunate when younger to be able to experience a > > decent education, I had to discover various sneaky ways in finding > > information that the terrible school I was at, was not teaching me. My > > passion to discover what was going in the world beyond the chaos of my > > everyday circumstance was strong - even obsessed, whether it was in > > science, politics, technology, history, philosophy or art, I would bunk > > school regularly and spend an awful lot of my time in the Essex Library, > > which thankfully was in Southend-on-Sea, a town 50 miles from London. > > Some examples of what I read from the age of 12 and 13 and (of course) > > onwards, were books such as the The Mass Psychology of Fascism by > > Wilhelm Reich, The Divided Self by R. D. Laing, James Joyce, T. S. Eliot > > and D. H. Lawrence. Carl Jung, Fear of Flying by Erica Jong, Herbert > > Read - especially Education Through Art and The Paradox of Anarchism, > > loads of art books. I am not saying that I understood these > > publications, but I am saying that it encouraged me to learn more and I > > have not stopped since. > > > > So, when I think of education I do not immediately think of official > > education as in universities or colleges. For I am a strong advocate of > > self-education, which also involves one being self critical as well. > > There is larger and broader context where individuals have the choice to > > explore life, art and all the other equally important subjects outside > > institution environments as well. One of my personal worries in respect > > of UK culture, which may be also the same regarding USA, although > > influenced through different historical, political situations is that, > > my own class - as in, working class has turned into a mass of gibbering > > X Factor driven bimbos. Of course, this is not a universal issue, but > > the consumer orientated mediation of our cultures via neo liberal > > agendas have not helped. > > > > I personally do not think that individuals themselves should deny any > > official forms of education. For there are some good educators here and > > there who are decent and authentic in appreciating how to learn > > themselves, and are active in the process of engaging with students in > > ways that attempt in spirit, to transcend beyond the bland and > > over-efficient trappings of slack management structures that manner are > > dealing with. Not just this, economics is factor in the real world and > > gaining degrees and learning via institutional means gets you a job. > > From that, if you are artist you get some proper money to fund your own > > projects on your own terms etc... > > > > The irony of learning outside of my school environment at that age was > > that, at 14 I was asked to go to college at weekends by the Essex > > council. Which was strange because all the other students were on > > average 17-20 years of age. I was told to go back to school or they > > would put me in a Borstal, so I did in the end. > > > > From this experience ideas around education have also been informed by > > writers such as 'Deschooling Society' by Ivan Illich, and other works > > such "Pedagogy of the Oppressed' by Paulo Friere. Yet, in contrast to > > all of this art (whatever medium) as a from of creative expression has > > always been my main agenda and always will be :-) > > > > wishing you well. > > > > marc > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > NetBehaviour mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, > number > > SC009201 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NetBehaviour mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > > > -- > ***************************** > Pall Thayer > artist > http://www.this.is/pallit > ***************************** > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number > SC009201 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >
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