Hi people really enjoying these insights. Drawing as an embodied experience - very nice. I think that working at the level of code does involve you in embodied experiences but they tend to be of the negative variety RSI etc!
The discussion of a drawing developing it's own life, the 'out of body' experience that Dave talks about is really interesting to me, because in my experience of drawing (painting too) is that it's at this point that the really profound experience of drawing emerges. Mihaly/Csikszentmihaly/ calls it 'flow' an feeling of total immersion in an activity. One of my favourite quotes about this comes from Philip Guston, I'm going to misquote him here because I cant find his biography, but basically he talks about starting work in his studio in the morning. At first he says, the studio is full of people (metaphorically), as he gets into the activity of painting people start leaving the studio, one by one and eventually he's the only person left. Eventually he gets up and leaves the studio himself and its only at this point that the real process of painting begins. I haven't done this justice but you get the idea :) tom On 05/05/2011 10:31, Ruth Catlow wrote: > Hi Dave and Simon, > > Thanks again for positive vibes: ) > Thanks Simon for expanding. > > What I can't account for is pure excitement of the process of drawing. > > Like you say Dave, drawing or working in any way with physical > materials produces a thing with "a life of its own" that some how > resonates with my body in a way that making a digital image doesn't. I > think it may be because I haven't taken the time to get close enough > to the v. complex raw materials of the digital image (to manipulate > the software, hardware, display and so the framing of the image)- I am > restricted to working with other peoples' emulations of a painting or > drawing pallet. I used to play the violin and I feel that there is a > parallel with the difference between electronically produced sound and > that produced by playing a physical instrument. Not that I need to > make a violin before I can play it, but with image manipulation > software I am using clever effects, cleverly created by others. Yes I > know... it's a can of worms. > > Where the "liveness" comes back in in digital art for me springs from > the networked relational, aspect. The way exchanges of ideas, language > and digital artefacts take root in the lives of our 'neighbours' in > the context of their lives. While the effects of this are mediated by > the technology- the most extraordinary effects seem still to arise > between 'people'. This is electrifying. > : ) > Ruth > > -----Original Message----- > *From*: dave miller <[email protected] > <mailto:dave%20miller%20%[email protected]%3e>> > *Reply-to*: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > <[email protected]> > *To*: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > <[email protected] > <mailto:netbehaviour%20for%20networked%20distributed%20creativity%20%[email protected]%3e>> > *Subject*: Re: [NetBehaviour] some landscapes > *Date*: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:29:28 +0100 > > Hi Ruth > > Glad you and marc had a good long holiday and a well desrved rest. > Lovely video - I like the way you have made your landscape drawings > return to the landscape, to become part of the landscape again. And > your drawings are great - you're very talented. > > Interesting conversation here - I'd like to know more about what Simon > is talking about - this "making of a work is when you appreciate it > has a life of its own". This is the feeling that I like, and tend to > get it when I do stuff on paper, or with physical materials, not so > much with computer based drawing. It's the out of body feeling that > comes when a work starts to take form. Do you have any links on > Bataille and Marcuse, I'd like to know more about this? > > cheers, dave > > > On 3 May 2011 08:35, Simon Biggs<[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Hi Ruth > > > > Subversive in the sense that an activity is designed to short-circuit or > > destablise an established process or set of relationships. For artists this > > has to be a daily activity if they are to critically challenge and refresh > > their practice. > > > > Of course this is fraught with contradictions. What happens if subversive > > methods become default? Are they still subversive - or are they the status > > quo? > > > > I also used the word transcendent in this context, not in any spiritual > > sense (let's be clear, I'm a materialist) but to suggest activities that go > > beyond what we are familiar with, practices intended to shift the > > frameworks > > we work within. > > > > But perhaps the best word that encapsulates all this, and which I should > > have used at the start, is transgression. This might imply social > > transgression but my focus here is on transgressing one's own conventions > > and beliefs in order to challenge yourself. > > > > So, whilst I agree with you that drawing is about more than just "looking" > > I > > would still argue that it is often by doing something extreme, that breaks > > with what you normally do, that change is made. In our lives we all carry > > so > > much baggage and are so adapted to that we are not aware of it most of the > > time. Recognising what we carry with us is the first step in critically > > evaluating what is worth the effort and what isn't. > > > > For me this is what art has always been for. It's an inquiry seeking to > > apprehend how things can be, rather than what we think things are. The most > > exciting moment in the making of a work is when you appreciate it has a > > life > > of its own - that you are making choices you would not otherwise of > > contemplated. > > > > The writers who were perhaps most eloquent in reflecting on this condition > > were Bataille and Marcuse. > > > > Best > > > > Simon > > > > > > On 02/05/2011 23:50, "Ruth Catlow"<[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > >> Thanks Martha, Simon and Renee for your positive comments, > >> > >> Simon thanks for the reminder about the value of removing things- very > >> true!! > >> > >> how do you mean- subversive? > >> > >> : ) > >> Ruth > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Simon Biggs<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > >> To:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>, > >> NetBehaviour for networked distributed > >> creativity<[email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]>> > >> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] some landscapes > >> Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 21:37:51 +0100 > >> > >> > >> Hi Ruth > >> > >> I agree - except when drawing operates as a transcendent or subversive > >> activity. Then you want it to operate on its own (as far as it can). Of > >> course, this ideal is not possible but taking things away is as valuable > >> as > >> putting things in. > >> > >> Best > >> > >> Simon > >> > >> > >> On 02/05/2011 19:21, "Ruth Catlow"<[email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Simon, > >>> I remember being taught something similar when I was in art school. > >>> It was useful- because it instils a discipline of looking. > >>> > >>> But it shouldn't be definitive. > >>> > >>> I think that drawing is something that first puts your eyes, hands, > >>> imagination, memory, attitudes, emotions, aspirations, and internal > >>> streams of consciousness in conversation with each other - and then in > >>> conversation with others. > >>> > >>> : ) > >>> Ruth > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Simon Biggs<[email protected] > >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> > >>> Reply-to: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > >>> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > >>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] some landscapes > >>> Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 19:02:41 +0100 > >>> > >>> > >>> The mantra I ask my 11 year old son to remember is that drawing is > >>> something > >>> you do with your eyes - and the hand follows. When he takes the time, > >>> like a > >>> day to do a still life of flowers, he can produce exquisite images. > >>> > >>> Best > >>> > >>> Simon > >>> > >>> > >>> On 02/05/2011 18:15, "tom.corby"<[email protected] > >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Lovely drawings Ruth. > >>>> I started drawing again last year, it's a wonderful process and > >>>> inherently discursive as it *forces* you to see the world as a series of > >>>> relationships. > >>>> > >>>> Great stuff. > >>>> > >>>> On 02/05/2011 12:26, Ruth Catlow wrote: > >>>>> Hello neighbours, > >>>>> > >>>>> Just back from a couple of weeks in the countryside - without an > >>>>> Internet connection. > >>>>> > >>>>> Here I have blogged some drawings, photographs and videos that I made > >>>>> while I was there. > >>>>> http://www.furtherfield.org/blog/ruth-catlow/landscape-natureculture > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> : ) > >>>>> Ruth > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> NetBehaviour mailing list > >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >>> > >>> > >>> Simon Biggs > >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ > >>> > >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> http://www.elmcip.net/ > >>> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NetBehaviour mailing list > >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NetBehaviour mailing list > >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > >> > >> > >> Simon Biggs > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ > >> > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >> http://www.elmcip.net/ > >> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NetBehaviour mailing list > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > > > Simon Biggs > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ > > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://www.elmcip.net/ > > http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NetBehaviour mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
